RUST..What are the acceptable permanent ways to get rid of it? - Page 12 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2004, 08:46 AM
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MARTINSR

You will find that everyone has spoken their mind on the POR subject. Some very knowledgeable people have said everything there is to say about the good and bad of POR and similar products.

I was an employee of a respected paint company. I was a regular old rep, a "salesman" if you will. I could make that $2,000.00 credit to a customer if I felt our product had done them wrong or failed in some way. Now, $2,000.00 isn't much when you are talking about paint on a fleet of trucks or something. But it would handle most jobs and I had the authority to make the payment. And if it involved more, I made a phone call, WHAM, five or ten thousand if I wanted. I never had to do that, but if I needed it, I could do it.

So again a 'little guy' gets the 'royal welcome'

We sure could have used you at Fisher during the '80s, when we were having trouble with large areas of paint delaminating and falling off the cars before we could even get them out of the plant.
You could have just whipped out that ol company checkbook and wrote us a $2000 check for each one, nah, better make it $10,000, then we would'nt even have had to sell cars to customers, as you would have been covering our costs.

The point is, with the very best paint experts the industry could supply, a multi-million dollar modern paint shop, and a staff of painting professionals with a combined level of experience equaling thousands of years, 'problems' still can happen, that just writing a check or offering a "lifetime warranty" can not and will not solve.
Yes, we now seem to finally have those early teething problems solved, but at a tremendous expense, literally in the multiple millions of dollars in research, more millions in warranty claims, (some vehicles requiring a total repaint before the dealers could even sell them,) and countless more millions in future lost sales to those customers swearing they would "NEVER BUY A ***** GM PRODUCT AGAIN!!!. goodby Oldsmobile

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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2004, 09:28 AM
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Finally have those problems solved at tremendous expense,multiple millions of dollars in research and more millions in warranty claims.--How much POR do they use after all that research?(My apologies in advance but I just couldn't resist)
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2004, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oldred
Finally have those problems solved at tremendous expense,multiple millions of dollars in research and more millions in warranty claims.--How much POR do they use after all that research?(My apologies in advance but I just couldn't resist)
Apology accepted
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2004, 06:15 PM
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First.... I did not post my comments to chase someone away. I will say that I may have to print them and use them again, if they chase away sales people. I usually have to work harder to get rid of them.

Also... a guarantee or warranty is no better than the product it represents. If it says that it will replace a defective product, that isn't worth a crap in the first place, what has it done to protect you?
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2004, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jessie J.

So again a 'little guy' gets the 'royal welcome'
I really don't understand what you mean, explain
If you mean the little guys don't get serviced while the big guys do, I am sorry, not on my watch. In fact the ONLY time I ever paid for a paint job where it was proven to be an actual product "failure" was to a home hobbyest. I paid him what he asked me for, including labor!

Quote:
We sure could have used you at Fisher during the '80s, when we were having trouble with large areas of paint delaminating and falling off the cars before we could even get them out of the plant.
You could have just whipped out that ol company checkbook and wrote us a $2000 check for each one, nah, better make it $10,000, then we would'nt even have had to sell cars to customers, as you would have been covering our costs.

The point is, with the very best paint experts the industry could supply, a multi-million dollar modern paint shop, and a staff of painting professionals with a combined level of experience equaling thousands of years, 'problems' still can happen, that just writing a check or offering a "lifetime warranty" can not and will not solve.
I have to tell you, there was a LOT of money paid by the paint manufacture to GM, a LOT of money. And why shouldn't it be? I can also say with a good deal of certainty they KNEW what was causing the problem. The challenge was solving the problem under the strict application requirements set by GM.


Last edited by MARTINSR; 11-25-2004 at 11:03 PM.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2004, 02:24 AM
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rust

hello new guy here. Been following this thread. Have a dumb question about rust. Someone earlier mentioned parkerizing I am familar with it only in use for firearms but isnt "blueing" on firearms just a controlled form of rust which requires constant oiling? btw I agree the only way to get rid of corrosion is to cut it out. Have learned a lot just "listening" to this thank you all
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2004, 08:41 PM
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what about inside the pannel

I'm new to the car world but have alot of knowledge
I have spent a while cutting away the pretty bad rot around my back wheels, but now I am worried about what could be up inside the body pannel, or on the back of it, and I don't have the capability of taking the body off to check. Is there anyway to make sure there is no rust on the back taht will work it's way through. or should it not be something I am concerned with.

and in a little side note where I just need some guidence.... I'm doing this on a 64 thunderbird landau, which is in pretty darn good shape accept the back end, is it worth going through the trouble of restoring it, and is the car worth enough to be worrying about perfection? If anyone can guide me along I would love it, thanks
~eric
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2004, 09:28 PM
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Rust

On the Studebaker site I just came across this, looks like it pertains to this thread.
http://www.safestrustremover.com
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2005, 11:34 AM
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rust

find fertan did a model a 20 years ago no rust back and paint fine it is on net under fertan america google it no i don't sell it only use it i swaer by it
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2005, 07:37 PM
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I can't believe I just read through all 12 pages
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 10:45 AM
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Jessy if you're still around how are your floor pans keeping up thus far?
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 10:58 AM
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I hope hes done, his last post was 6 yrs ago...LOL welcome to HR....top left corner has the post dates .....
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 01:29 PM
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hehe yeah I know, that's why I thought it's a good time to see how por15 has held up. It seems fine in theory but in practice it's so moronic. I'm so confused over what to use. From what I read I have a few problems. First, regarding por15. I actually tried the starter kit. Took me a whole day and I was lucky to be able rent a car lift for 10$/hour. So first I used a grinder with a soft metal brush to remove all loose rust and flakes under my car. Then I rinsed it with water with a hose. Let it dry for a while and sprayed with marine clean. Then rinse with water and let it dry for an hour. Then I used metal ready, let it sit for 30 minuted and again rinsed it with water. Gave it 2 hours to dry (outside on a sunny day) and finally used a brush to apply the product. Well the problem that I think all these procedures didn't remove everything that has accumulated under my car. Also, after a few weeks, I can scrape it with my fingernails. Regarding the rumor that it doesn't come off your skin, I was able to scrape it off the same day, again with my fingernails. The place where it holds the best is where it was rusty. So as I live in Montreal I decided to go to the warehouse and get another pint to cover the remaining rust. I talked to the guy who says he's been selling it for 19 years to make sure I apply it correctly. He told me that after I rinsed off the metal ready, I have to wait till it's completely dry, and that can take from 1 days to a week. If you don't have a garage or a special hot temperature room, how can you do it? I mean after a week of driving your car it's gonna get dirty underneath, so if you paint por15 it won't adhere.
In my case I'm only talking about surface rust, which I can remove with naval jelly after multiple applications. The only thing that stays are tiny pits, and I'm not sure if they're rusted or not.
So it's really confusing what to do with the rust. If I paint over it with por15, it should seal it completely and the little rust won't grow. However the problem is to make sure the rust is actually dry. How can I make sure of that if people said that there's moisture even in the air, so when you paint it, it will trap moisture under the paint. And another problem, if I'm rinsing it with water, won't it get into seems and crevices where it won't dry?
Now if I remove all the rust, should I use the epoxy primer? The only one that mixes automatically and that I can order online is on eastwood's website, 20$ a can. Now again, how do you know when the metal is dry to start spraying? People just said that the metal starts rusting right away (within seconds). If this is so, you either paint over rusted metal or over wet metal, and both are bad.
A few people here strongly suggested that you should go to the professional body shops etc. because they know better and they also don't use it.
I don't know about the States but in Montreal, Canada, it seems that all the repair services do is cover up your rust, your holes or anything. They don't do quality job, just quick fixes so you end up paying for nothing. This is what all my friends told me.
After all the information I learned, I'm inclined to use por15 instead of everything else. At least I can have some rust, sandpaper it somewhat and paint right over. This way I'm sure it's not wet (I won't have to use metal ready and rinse it off because it adheres very well to rust). I also won't need to use marine clean and to rinse it off and wait undefined amount of time till it drys, since after sandpapering the rust will already be clean. The first tiny layer of rust will be gone along with all the contaminants and dirt.
I know I wrote a lot and it's an old topic but these details don't seem obvious to me so I'm puzzled how to do it RIGHT with at least surface rust you can easily remove (and here again people have said that you can't see rust so how can you be sure you removed it if you can't see it?)
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 01:57 PM
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I use ospho,been using it for almost 30 yrs...even if I sand blast..check out the thread "the ospho solution" or hit search and punch in "ospho"read up on it a little and pm me, I'll walk you through it....its a lot easier and cheaper to use and costs around 15-20.00 a quart..plus it'll last ....something I swear by ...
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 03:43 PM
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rust??...who's got time for rust??

Randy is the only one who CORRECTLY answered the question...yep get the nibbler and the shears out or any other cutting tool you can get your hands on. After cutting the ugly out go ahead and Spot a patch in then after grinding clean and a good cleaning with a metal prep apply 2 coats of epoxy primer to both sides of the area. This serves 2 purposes, 1..it prevents moisture from creating more rust...2... it give great adhesion to your fillers. Just treat the area as you would any other repair and you should be rust free for the life of the car( only in that area...remember cancer spreads to untreated areas) Or you can just move to a high desert area and never have to deal with the stuff again!!!
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