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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 04:16 PM
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Thank you. I think this is the link you're referring to The Ospho Solution..(rust removal) Actually that's what I wanted to use in the first place. So as I was searching for a rust transformer, I first wanted to use the one eastwood have, but stumbled upon por15 which had better reviews.
In your post, I saw some very light dusty surface rust (however much more rusted on the 2nd page). You removed your rust completely. I thought that ospho transforms rust. Once I applied it, should I just paint it after it dried or should I remove the rust completely and what would I do then? I wa you're using epoxy primer, something that virtually every pro recommends over products like por or rust bullet. Should I apply it once I removed all the rust? I'm wondering if I can you a can that eastwood sells on their site? Their stuff will mix itself automatically and would be really convenient for me since I never used epoxy primer and have no clue how to mix it.
You said that ospho can even protect bare metal, that's really nice, because when I used naval jelly, it did remove rust but if it rained I had rust there. Apparently naval jelly doesn't leave a protective coating.
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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:20 AM
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Personally I wont buy anything from Eastwoods. In my opinion they target amitures with quality results and they charge to much for what they do have that is good ...I have bought things from them in the past thats where I get my opinion.
I use Ospho and only Ospho ,by name only ,it runs about 15.00 a qt.,its made by Skyco.
once its dry it'll hold up outside, in the weather, unprotected for weeks or in a shop for a year.but just to make sure I always reapply it after it sits for a while. You can reapply it as many times as you want...
Many times we'll strip a car and it starts rusting the next day the method of stripping dosn't matter (with the exception of soda blasting but that comes with its own limitations and problems),when I lived in Fla this was a big problem ,the ospho cured it.because when it drys it forms a barrier against moisture...
The most important thing is to sand and scuff it before applying EPOXY primer.It works with all primers including lacquer but epoxy is the best and some brands are much better than others...
Back when I started out 2ks were just coming out and we were still using lacquer primer every day...and products like "rust mort"(I dont even know if they still make that stuff) anyway,when I moved to Fla and started working at a high end bodyshop that did a ton of restorations the owner gave me a bottle and showed me how he wanted it applied after every car I stripped...At the time I thought it was a total waste of time (I had been doing this for 10yrs,I was a pro and I already knew everything about everything ....I was young) ....,you even had to wait a day or two for it to completely dry. but it was his shop so I listened and kept my mouth shut...That was about 25yrs ago and the basic technique I use for applying it hasn't changed very much...I've never had a problem with adhesion and I see cars that I did 25 yrs ago, still....My friend in Fla still has his 69 camero I restored with the same paint and every time I see it I cant believe how good it looks, still.Of coarse its his baby and he takes very good care of it with the exception of its weekend trips to the drag strip...I go to Fla once or twice every year and always stop by to see it.so if someone says you'll have adhesion problems their wrong and have used it improperly.Or simply never even used it....That was the whole point of making the video and the "solution" thread....although unfinished....

As for heavy rust it still works great at getting rid of it.heavily pitted or not BUT..its a lot of work and when you have pits the metal thin and weak (its almost gone and there's no way to get it back unless you replace it ...
HOWEVER,on places like a roof or trim holes for body side trim that dont have much structural strength it'll work very well at saving whats left and keep it from coming back...its not as good as cutting off your roof and replacing it but it will hold up,especially for a hard to find roof or a vinyl top that has rusted but still can be saved....

I had a severely rusted roof on my 48 ,pits,holes ,the works..It really needed to be replaced but I couldn't find a biz coupe roof that anyone would part with without buying the whole car so I repaired mine after looking around for a year....I did the same with the 1/4s ...I repaired them.
when I did my 1/4s ,after treating them and epoxying I went on the inside and used panel weld adhesive to glue strips of metal for strength,I was going to do the same for the roof (put new metal on the inside) but after filling the pits and dents it seamed strong enough so I never did get around to it...heres a couple pics of the roof and 1/4s keep in mind this car was rotted from head to toe only someone like me would ever concider fixing this.but its been fun and it got me the unusual nickname...
BTW The first pics that looks like a meteorite is the roof after epoxy ,sorry no pics of it before but the light brown spots are the drop light inside shining through the holes .....Sorry for the long drawn out post but when it come to rust there is no quick or single answer....Thats probably why these threads go on and on and never die...Rust never sleeps........Ospho works but get a bottle and practice with it first.....Mike O.
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:59 AM
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Heres the roof.....
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 06:03 AM
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Heres the 1/4 showing the backer on the inside..The roof has been ddone for 2-3 yrs and the 1/4 around 4-5yrs ...I mostly keep it outside....Its only in primer and have no plans to paint in the near future ,I want to drive it first....
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:35 AM
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I'll try to buy some ospho today, unfortunately couldn't find it on ebay, maybe napa auto parts will have it. With regards to epoxy, which brand would you recommend? Hopefully they have it in Canada, as it is sometimes hard to come by many good products here.
You mentioned I should sand the surface before applying epoxy. If I understood correctly, after applying oshpo the rust will become black solid surface. Do I just sand it lightly or do I send off everything to get to bare metal?
You also mentioned rust mort, I looked it up and it seems to be the same thing as opsho, am I correct. At least I found this stuff online 27$/quart+10$ shipping to Canada (still much cheaper than por15)
I really enjoyed your pictures, let's see if I can match your results, probably not, hehe! Must feel great when you finally drive the car!
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 10:31 AM
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Rust mort is not even close to the same for an end result...it might sound the same as with many other rust cure products ,dont be fooled by misleading advertising...I ONLY use ospho,nothing else.... there are some videos in that thread that show how its applied and sanded it doesnt turn black like an encapsulator it is actually a grayish transperent primer when dry so like all primers or other coatings they need sanding and scuffing before applying anything else.sanding also tells you if its completly dry it'll ball up on the sand paper if its not ready.
I had a few guys tell me it was tough to get in the "Great White" ...Here ,its available at any autobody supply store or even sherman williams paint stores but they (SW) only sell it by the gallon 45.00 and even I would take a long time to use all that ....1 qt is usually good for 3-6 cars ...just do a google search on ospho and you'll see all the distributors and their locations...most any epoxy will do for you but I'm very parcial to SPI epoxy and clear....I really wont use anything else any more....Because when I find an exellant product at a fair price I' stick with it and someone will have to GIVE me something for free thats even better before I'll change...Ospho is about the only product I've never changed once I found it.same with SPI epoxy and clear then Z-grip bondo and ez sand finishing putty along with fandeli sand paper these are just what I found work best for me ,not everyone feels the same and everyone is partial to their own brands.....Feel free to Pm me if your having trouble getting it locally I can give you skyco's e-mail address.They'll get right back within 24 hrs.....if you get a bottle you can pm me and I'll give complete detailed instructions on how to use it properly without any trouble its not that hard once you know the system your resu;lts will be exactly like mine maybe better ....I also use it as a metal prep for unrusted metal it cleans and etches very well....

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  #187 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:22 PM
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I think of all the stores listed on ospho's website, Sherwin Williams seems to be the only one in my city. I'll check it in a couple of days if they have it. I went to Napa autoparts today and asked for ospho. They had no clue what it was so I asked for an epoxy. The guy said that it is two parts and I shouldn't use it because when I get the activator, the other part will be already dry and they didn't have it anyway. He told me that epoxy is just a name and I can get something else in a spray can and it's the same thing. So I bought DuPont Etch Primer A-4115S 1K Self-Etching Primer. Do you know if it's any good? It better be, was pretty expensive! (30$ for one spraycan) If not I guess I can return it...Will be trying to locate ospho next week.
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2010, 03:09 PM
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If the Napa guy told you epoxy is just a name of a product and sold you the etching primer in its place...RUN. I would never ask that guy if the sky is blue... Google the word epoxy and then Google epoxy primer. Epoxy is two parts...that are mixed together, not applied separately. Epoxy is a TYPE of primer, (two part). That would be like saying toilet tissue is a name, when in reality it is a product....Kleenex would be a Name,(brand), of tissue.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:05 AM
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That Napa man should be shot!!!! I'm surprised he didny try to sell you glue (he most likely sniffed it all) You should return that rip off can of green liquid its not even a good etch primer I laugh every time I walk by that stuff...
Never buy primer or paint in a arisol can...I wouldnt buy anything from there again...

Epoxy primer is a two part system . usuually its 1:1 you mix equal parts let it sit for a few minutes then stir it again then spray ...it wont get hard until both parts are used ( like epoxy glue) .... business must be slow up there for napa use such misleading practices. OR maybe the guy is just an idiot...
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwyhogg
If the Napa guy told you epoxy is just a name of a product and sold you the etching primer in its place...RUN. I would never ask that guy if the sky is blue... Google the word epoxy and then Google epoxy primer. Epoxy is two parts...that are mixed together, not applied separately. Epoxy is a TYPE of primer, (two part). That would be like saying toilet tissue is a name, when in reality it is a product....Kleenex would be a Name,(brand), of tissue.
And would like trying to wipe your butt with confetti...
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  #191 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwyhogg
If the Napa guy told you epoxy is just a name of a product and sold you the etching primer in its place...RUN. I would never ask that guy if the sky is blue... Google the word epoxy and then Google epoxy primer. Epoxy is two parts...that are mixed together, not applied separately. Epoxy is a TYPE of primer, (two part). That would be like saying toilet tissue is a name, when in reality it is a product....Kleenex would be a Name,(brand), of tissue.
II searched a long time ego, when I first heard the word but it didn't make much sense to me:
Quote:
Epoxy or polyepoxide is a thermosetting polymer formed from reaction of an epoxide "resin" with polyamine "hardener". Epoxy has a wide range of applications, including fiber-reinforced plastic materials and general purpose adhesives.
Now epoxy primer:
Quote:
Epoxy primer/sealer is a non-porous finish that is typically recommended as the first basecoat over bare steel. Various epoxy primers can also be applied over fiberglass, plastic, or the black iron phosphate coating that remains after "converting" rust.
So I'm still not sure what is it exactly? Are these two things in cans, you spray one over another? Are they in bottles, you mix them and paint with a brush (probably not haha) or do you need to mix them and use a paint gun (which I don't have and I think they're expensive). In what containers are they even sold, what are they like, powder, liquid, paste etc?
In any case since the stuff I bought is no good (I'm really disappointed I thought it was a quality product) I'm gonna return it and get something else. I wonder if this is any good?
Rubber seal RS-587 epoxy primer
Solvent resistant (REAL) 2K epoxy in an aerosol can!!!!
The only problem will be finding where to buy it...After I looked around it seems that epoxy primer needs to be used with a gun and I'd be happy to find something I could use with a spray can
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  #192 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2010, 11:47 AM
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Epoxy that comes in spray cans is not worth a darn. Forget that idea.
Also, "conversion" of rust is a myth. There will still be rust. Get rid of the rust and work with clean metal. Also forget the Ospho. Prep the clean metal with 80 grit D/A scratches, use a waterborne wax and grease remover, and spray 2 coats of a high-quality epoxy on the metal. Ospho on clean bare metal is a waste of time and can be detrimental. Use Ospho on your outdoor furniture but use quality automotive products on your car body. For automotive use, epoxy has the best adhesion to properly prepped metal bar none.
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  #193 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:26 PM
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epoxy is glue......................
mixed with different resins and fillers it is the very best foundation to work on.
you are advised to epoxy first, you are advised to epoxy last before color .... why sandwich anything in between. i just epoxy and block until i'm ready to paint .

BUT all epoxies are not the same . most can not be sanded . i use one that blocks really well and sands as good as any polyurethane out there.
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  #194 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2010, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1
Also, "conversion" of rust is a myth. There will still be rust. Get rid of the rust and work with clean metal. Also forget the Ospho. Prep the clean metal with 80 grit D/A scratches, use a waterborne wax and grease remover, and spray 2 coats of a high-quality epoxy on the metal. Ospho on clean bare metal is a waste of time and can be detrimental. Use Ospho on your outdoor furniture but use quality automotive products on your car body. For automotive use, epoxy has the best adhesion to properly prepped metal bar none.
Come on, you just can't throw decades of someone's experience out of the window. It's not like he used it yesterday and thinks it worked. He actually saw those cars years and years later, thus the results are well documented. I think this merits to be tried at least...

shine
Thanks for the explanation!) So looks like I absolutely need to buy a painting gun as they is no other way to apply good quality epoxy primer?
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  #195 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2010, 01:12 AM
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The problem with this thread is, after 13 pages, it doesn't do anything for the backyard builder. People don't want miracles, they just want their jalopy not to rust while they work on it. But not everyone can afford what people are pushing here. Doing it "the right way" costs a lot of money for people just starting out. Sure, a good can of epoxy primer isn't that expensive, but getting to where you can spray it is. Paint booth, spray guns, ventilation, filters, PPE gear, and so on, all that stuff adds up to a big chunk of change.
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