RUST..What are the acceptable permanent ways to get rid of it? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2004, 11:02 PM
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This maybe an interesting experience for people who are comtemplating sandblasting. I had some small pieces such as hood latch, hinges etc. They had some rust on them in very specific areas. I thought what the hey, Iam going to be sealing them with epoxy primer in a week or so, so I took them to work where we have what they call a wheelabrator. It is a mechanical type of sandblaster and you can do a load of parts such as radiator frames in about 3-4 minutes. Easy, no real work involved. They came out beautiful. I put them in a box and took them home where they have sat in the garage for about 2 weeks. Guess what, they started to rust, quite heavily I might add in the exact same spots, but remained clean where there was no rust. I do not mean sort of close, I mean exact locations. It dawned on me that when metal has rusted for a period of time, it actually slows down the corrosion process to some extent. I am no expert, but I think I just gave the corrosion process some food when I blasted to clean metal again!
One question for the corrosion experts out there. If it takes iron, water and oxygen to corrode metal, why does it not stop when you take one of the components away. I have read on this board that sealing rust does not work. Is the problem that you are not able to eliminate one of the elements by coating? Just curious about that problem.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2004, 10:35 AM
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Rust

Was just reading the "rust" posts and it crossed my mind that I've got rust on the inside of my hood where the chrome was removed and really need to do something about it. It then occured to me that I've got a friend that has a neglected and left out in the weather for several years '50 Mercury and I should go over there and see where it's rusted through and then check mine in those areas.
One reason I haven't done anything to the rust on mine is that there are so many different products and approaches and opinions that it's mind boggling and the manufacturers can make any claim they want and there's no recourse other than skepticism, OR, reading a site like this one where the contrubiters have no reason to lie about a product they have used.
I have some POR 15 in the garage that I bought for the aforementione rust but I'm not sure now that I want to use it after seeing some of these previous posts.
Anyway, I guess the thing to do is read the different opinions expressed on this site and draw my own conclusions.
Charlie Smith
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Old 09-24-2004, 12:38 PM
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What a subject!
Reading your post if you were 20 years old, I would not respond.
These companies have created a market going after the do it yourself hobbyist and how are you to know better?
Your not in contact with Dupont, PPG or BASF factory reps.
You don't attend their training classes.

The worst thing here is anything negative said about one of these products is going to be attacked by people that have used it a couple of times and must justify. What are the chances of failure if you use a product once or twice.

Don't listen to us, call or visit some good bodyshops around you
and ask them if they use products like this.
If its so great, they are using it.
If you find one shop out of a 100 that has ever used it you would be lucky.

Why? Unless they are a used car special shop that does not need to back their work there is no way they can use this stuff.
The redo's would put them out of business.

Last edited by BarryK; 09-24-2004 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 09-24-2004, 05:09 PM
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AMEN!! Barry.
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Randy Ferguson
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Old 09-24-2004, 10:42 PM
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I can't believe the attacks I have received after knocking POR or other "magic potions".

The pattern I see is similar to the pattern I saw when I was working at a parts counter.

The pros, the people who make a living doing this stuff would NEVER mention the McParts stores like Kragen, Pep Boys or the like as the "next place" they would look for something I didn't have in stock. They would only mention the REAL parts stores in town, the ones who supplied the REAL pros.

The do it yourselfers on the other hand, the guy standing there in his "old" slacks covered in grease holding the starter to his mini van would NEVER mention the REAL parts stores as the next place to look for that part I didn't have, he would ONLY mention PepBoys and Kragen! He didn't even know the REAL parts stores existed!

PLEASE I am not knocking the do it yourselfer, PLEASE understand that. I appreciate where they are, I appreciate the learning curve is steep. I am a do it yourselfer too you know! I fix cars, that is my job. That is what I have done to put food on my table for 25 years. But when I go to have my computer fixed, or a lawn installed, I know NOTHING I will follow the marketing of some goof ball product, I don't know any better.

But there is one thing for sure, when a pro in computers or lawns tells me something, I listen, damn right, I listen.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2004, 08:38 AM
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Its a cult! Why? pick-up an old car magazine or Car and Parts or Hemmings, thats the target audience.

Pickup Body-shop business or ABRN and you will not see the stuff
because they know no bodyshop is going to buy this crap so at $15,000 per month for an ad, it would be a waste of money.

So how is anyone thats not in the business going to know this is not the greatest stuff since cars were invented.
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Old 09-25-2004, 09:21 AM
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I am curious about the statement about sandblasting increasing rust problems. I am not body expert, but I have to disagree. If all the rust is removed and the metal is sealed the rust should never come back. I blasted the body on my 57 about 12 years ago.....yes, I was only 15 yrs old.......and it has had no rust come back. I would suggest a defferent media than most of you have probably heard of. Blow sand from a local farmer works wonderfully. It has rounded edges so it is much like soda blasting and leaves a nice smooth surfage. Of course it depends on where you live whether or not you can get the sand, and you have to sift it before putting it in the tank.

Chris
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Old 09-25-2004, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TurboS10
I am curious about the statement about sandblasting increasing rust problems. I am not body expert, but I have to disagree. If all the rust is removed and the metal is sealed the rust should never come back. I blasted the body on my 57 about 12 years ago.....yes, I was only 15 yrs old.......and it has had no rust come back. I would suggest a defferent media than most of you have probably heard of. Blow sand from a local farmer works wonderfully. It has rounded edges so it is much like soda blasting and leaves a nice smooth surfage. Of course it depends on where you live whether or not you can get the sand, and you have to sift it before putting it in the tank.

Chris
****************************************
This myth was started years ago because sand will harbor some moisture and water shooting out of the gun after the compressor
got hot and sand would come out in clumps this was especially true with sand blasting companies.
With a water trap on the air line its not a problem today or was it than if a coating was applied shortly.

Any moisture in the sand is going to be so minor, that it has no more affect than car setting in humidity at 70%.

And I should add none of this is a concern if before coating you hit the metal with a DA.
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Old 09-25-2004, 04:03 PM
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Here's a thought-
Big ships, oilrigs and the like have to be VERY rust resistant, I meen, they float in salt water for years on end.
So, they must paint them with one he:ll of a rust resistant paint.
Mabey we should try painting our cars with the same kind of paint.
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Old 09-25-2004, 07:42 PM
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That would rule. But I don't think it would be very practical. I'm looking for naval jelly, does anyone know if they sell it at lowes/home depot or not?
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Old 09-26-2004, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jzarczyn
Here's a thought-
Big ships, oilrigs and the like have to be VERY rust resistant, I meen, they float in salt water for years on end.
So, they must paint them with one he:ll of a rust resistant paint.
Mabey we should try painting our cars with the same kind of paint.
**********************************************
Not really! Ever been on a cruse ship? They have full time painting crew, you port at an island in morning and come back at night and thy have a 50 foot section roped off.

Boat paint, I call on 4 boat OEM's and the big seller is US paint a Polyurethane with the quality's of Concept (single stage)Because its a Poly it is a little better.
Pratt Lambert (owned now by S&W) is more known for aviation paints but does sell some boat places.
Bottom paint (below waterline) is a totally different ball game.
Oil company's in some processes create hydrochloric by products
so there are paints made for that purpose but to make a paint to stand up to acids like this you lose all gloss and usability.
Some of this stuff can take 3-7 days to dry.
Wonder why they don't use por? (sorry, just had to throw that in!)
Barry
Beaumont, TX

I should add the polyurethane is used where gloss is important on liners where its not as critical they may use an epoxy paint sometimes. As the epoxy paint is stronger.

Last edited by BarryK; 09-26-2004 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 09-26-2004, 08:38 PM
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Corrosion protection for off shore oil rigs (click here) No POR there! How about

Golden Gate bridge corrosion protection (click here, by the way, it is Sherwin Williams paint) No POR here either.

Guys, the oil industry would laugh at you if you suggested POR. And if POR did what it says it does, it would be filling cargo ships in 55 gallon drums and shipped all over the earth, NOT in pints sold at a space at swap meets next to the guy with used Rally Wheels and hubcaps.

Here is an index of companies servicing the off shore oil industry (click here) Go ahead, email some of them, ask them what they think about the "Great and Powerful OZ" Oh sorry about the "Great and powerful POR".
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Old 09-26-2004, 08:54 PM
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I cannot believe how far this topic went. Quite a big controversy surrounding these magic potions.

I am not looking to make my car last for 200 years, or am I out to make it unrustable. I am just out to do a better job than the factory did as far as rust resistance. So basically, rust is either wirebrushed or cut out and refitted with new, depending on the severity and then gone over with some of SPI's epoxy primer. Does that sound good enough to you guys? Keep in mind, this car will be kept off salt and pretty much out of moisture after I am done. I think i'll be ok. If not, please speak up.
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Old 09-27-2004, 12:20 AM
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HOW ABOUT THIS???

Under the cowl vent I had some very minor rust, maybe one small hole. Here is what I did, let me know what you think. By the way, 71 Nova.

I stripped all the metal down as best as I could with a wire wheel. Used an ecapsulating rustoleum brush on primer. Used seam sealer to coat the area (including the small hole).

From what I've read, I wasted my time???!!!!

Any advise on these unseen areas?

Thanks, John
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2004, 02:28 PM
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from what i have read and heard, rust is a chemical reaction, that needs to be stopped by either removing the affected area or treating the area. The only treatments that i have even heard of working is naval jelly and phosphoric acid(I think this is the acid, you can find out for sure since this acid is sold as a paint prep for steel at most hardware stores). The acid causes a chemical reaction with the steel which creates a new version of oxidation which is the same thing that rust is, only a less volitile version. The treated area will turn black and create a new surface that can be painted over. This treatment is only for surface rust and minor pitting. I do know that autoshops use similar types of products, since most paint preps contain an acid base to help neutralize the rust. This prep is applied prier to any primer or other treatments. Such substances and many others are used in conjuction with top brands of paints. These treatments are not meant to be the end all be all of rust nuetralizing or treatment. They must be top coated preferably with a high quality epoxy primer, not a self etching primer since this primer requires some surface rust to adhere properly itself.
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