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Old 04-29-2005, 10:06 PM
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S10 Brakes In Chevelle?

Hi everyone,
Awhile back this POST by WEIMER was made.

It was about putting late 80's S10 disc brakes on a Chevelle.
Believe it or not we both have a 71 Chevelle and after reading that it got me thinking.
I have 4 wheel drum brakes and would like to upgrade the front to disc. As many know that cost big $$$ and if I could do this with the S10 it would really save me.

I would like to know if anyone since that post has done or tired this and what you found out. Does anyone have any input on this at all? I got some good info from the post and other sites but I trust you guys.

Thanks for anything!

Chris

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Old 04-29-2005, 10:51 PM
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I think what weimer was talking about was the 78-87 chevelles.......These have the same brakes and suspension parts as the S10s.

You 72s brakes are different....don't think the S10 stuff will fit your car....I may be wrong.
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Old 04-29-2005, 11:16 PM
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From the post : does anyone know if the front disc setup from a late-80's S10 work on a 71 Chevelle...


Im not sure about it fitting... I was read on another site that they lined up and everything fit but the arms where an inch longer? I mean I really don't expect it to match up right on but yea know one of those "pretty darn close, with a little work type deals" It sounded close but I really wanted to know what you guys thought.



O and as far as I know 78 was the last year they put "Chevelle" on the cars and 73 was the last really true muscle car Chevelle.

Chris
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:06 PM
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1) Normal s10 brakes (same as g-body) are too small for what they came in.

2) 98-up 2wd Blazers came with 11" rotors and dual piston calipers and will swap into older s10's & g-bodies.

3) Some very good parts to look into swapping are 12" b-body spindles. They will improve the handling of your car and the brakes are very big. Normal b-bodies only came with 11" rotors. It is the cop cars and waggons that came with the 12" rotors (but they were also 5 on 5"). These parts are VERY EASY TO COME BY at the j/y. You need to look into weather or not you would need different upper control arms because of the taller knuckles on the b-bodies. You can use ~91 f-body 1LE rotors to convert to 5 on 4.75". Global West has some nice kits (I am using one on my s10).
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:16 PM
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Thanks Triaged,

If you don't mind can you explain this to me a little further. Im not all that well versed on brakes. Not afraid to work...just learning

1.SO what your saying is the S10 brakes are really too small to be used in my size car?

2.The larger 11" are better and can be swap into the older s10 so if the older s10 would fit mt car then these should too, correct?

Finally then the B-body cars would be the best choice?
3.What do you mena by 5 on 5?
4. Could you please explain to me how this swap would go. Im somewhat confused as to what cars/parts i'd be useing.

Thanks again and sorry for being dumb about this stuff

Chris
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikingthematch
1.SO what your saying is the S10 brakes are really too small to be used in my size car?
I think your car is about as heavy as my truck (read: very heavy or around 3500lb). My brakes would only last about 10-12,000mi (which wasen't even a year for me) and would fade if I drove it hard...so yes I think they are too small for you (just my opinion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by strikingthematch
2.The larger 11" are better and can be swap into the older s10 so if the older s10 would fit mt car then these should too, correct?
Exactly. If the 'normal' s10 brakes (from 83-97 and also g-bodies) will bolt into your car then the 98-up Blazer stuff will as well. Some people call these ZQ8 (aka eXtreem s10) brakes but that is not correct (but might help you search). These might be a good 'bolt-in' option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strikingthematch
Finally then the B-body cars would be the best choice?
3.What do you mena by 5 on 5?
4. Could you please explain to me how this swap would go. Im somewhat confused as to what cars/parts i'd be useing.
5 on 5 is the wheel bolt pattern that GM used on 2wd full size trucks and land yachts. GM used 5 on 4.75" bolt pattern on all the mid-size stuff.

I had to get some new upper control arms that were shorter then the stock s10 arms in order to bolt the spindles to my truck. I don't know if there is a factory control arm that you could use to make them work. There are cheeper places to get control arms from (like www.stockcarproducts.com) but you would have to figure out the dimensions you need to order them. Global West ( http://www.globalwest.net/1964-72%20A-BODIES.htm ) has already done all the homework and you just have to bolt them on. Might cost more in the long run but I think you would like this option the best.

I'm sure if you do a search for "b-body" you will find A LOT of info about swapping their brakes into just about anything!

This is what global west has to say about the swap:

Quote:
Tall Spindle Disc Brake conversion for GWs Tubular Upper Control Arms:
(Negative Roll Systems)

Using tall GM disc brake spindles with our upper control arms will give you the following advantages:

Improved tire life through new suspension geometry.
1-inch lower ride height without loosing suspension travel.
(Spindle provides a 1-inch drop with this conversion).
Provides much larger factory disc brakes to be used.
Spindles are stronger than original units.
Overall package provides dramatic handling gains.
Stock spring maybe used if desired.
Allows for Pro-Vintage Disc brakes to be used. (Pro-Vintage Disc brake use Billet hubs 4 piston
calipers and 1-1/4 wide rotors).
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Old 04-30-2005, 06:02 PM
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Good info on the later model S10 stuff. I'll measure that and see how it sizes up since it wouldn't be worth going ot the smaller 10" anyways.

5 on 5 see now that makes sense what a duh moment that way lol.

Now im not sure on this and would have to measure it to find out but one site I went to said that the S10 spindle was an inch longer then the Chevelle.

Not to sure on the b-body stuff but I now have a direction to look in I will stock up on info on b-body brakes and see if I can find what im looking for.

1.What year waggons and or b-bodies should I be look towards to find the 11/12" ?
2. Is there anything else that I should be thinking of

I mean really like you said I might just have to order a part in but when it comes down to it I will still have saved a bucket full of money over buying new everything all around.

guess it comes down to the tape measure.

Thanks for all your help.

Chris
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Old 04-30-2005, 06:34 PM
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From here http://www.skullmobile.com/brakes.htm

Quote:
Steve Chin Sez
"Careful getting spindles! The B-bodies used both 11" and 12" disc brakes (a fact the magazines and "experts" seem to ignore). Measure the rotors before you attempt to remove anything. From my observations, the station wagons seem to all have 12" rotors, where the 2-door and 4-door models seem to have a split population of 11" and 12" rotors (with the 11" jobs being more common). GM made a design change in either 1980 or 1981 that netted a stronger spindle with less weight. I look for '82-'85 wagons for the lighter spindles."
My spindles were off an 88 Wagon (just happended to be the first one I saw at the j/y...there were at least 3 others I could have picked from that day)

This is my post about my swap. Obviously it wasn't on an A-body but it might give you an idea of the cost and some part #'s
http://forums.s-series.org/viewtopic...ighlight=bbody
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Old 04-30-2005, 07:09 PM
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Alright so the wagon seems to be a good choice to look for.

I read through your whole post with your conv. and I must say nice job!

Im going to go out and measure up the upper and lower control arms to see what im working with.
When I do this I will try and get all the parts I can from the j/y donor which hopefully if I school myself right here I can get everything I need.

1. Do you know what the length of the b-body control arms are?
2. Do you know the length acorss the to the arm pivot joins two inner edges and two outter?

Sorry for all the questions once again but I love doing this kinda stuff.

Nice little Q&A we got here lol.

Chris
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:08 PM
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This is all the info I have on the control arm lengths.
http://www.montecarloss.com/cgi-bin/...8;t=001984;p=1
I never measured my stock s10 control arm before I tossed it.

I have heard of people using offset cross shafts from Moog and being able to use the factory control arms. This wouldn't work on an S10 because of how narrow it is and exhaust/steering clearance.

I think it's time to measure all your stuff and then go to the j/y and measure b-bodies. Who knows there might be some other factory control arm out there that is short enough to work.

You could also take a look at this to see the difference between stock (S10) and b-body parts...ummmmm...Beefy!
http://jwvess00.home.insightbb.com/j...rake/front.htm
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:28 PM
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Some other notes:

As with any brake swap you will need to check for wheel clearance. 14" rims won't fit over the 12" brakes and not all 15" aluminum wheels fit either.

If you want to lower it you can use 96 Impala (still a B-body) lowering spindles...but they are expensive.

You might not want to take the calipers from the j/y. The one around here charged me $12 for them and they are only $14 new (+ core but doesn't everybody have at least 1 set of GM calipers in their backyard ). You also don't want to take the rotors because they will have the wrong bolt pattern.
Don't forget to pick up all the little things like hardware, clips (for the brake lines, etc...), and combination valve. I'm sure if you were on a budget you could get all the parts except the rotors from the j/y.
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:03 PM
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Thanks,
I went out and measured up the Chevelle the best I could right now the rear is getting worked on so I can't really get under the front. I will compare measurements and see how it sizes up.

I have to buy new rims in the near future anyways (selling all mine at yard sale ) So I can just buy rims for the rotors and take whem with me too.

I'll see how the capliers look and might just buy them from the auto parts store to be safe.

Not lowering so that is ok .

I'll be sure to measure everything down to a T and then go to the junk yard now that I know what im looking for it will be much easier to find it.
I'll look for a late 80's+ wagon and measure out the arms and everything that goes with.

I think that if it is anywhere close i will be able to tell what is within my power to do. I can clearly see that some things will have to be cahnged and worked with. I got plenty of time and can tell you that I know I would be happy when this is done.

I will load up the picture of the few measurements I could get.

I want to thank you for all your help this has set me in a very good direction. I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes once I get out and measure things up .

Chris
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:20 PM
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NOTE: Very rough measurements this is bearly getting uder car and sliding around a wheel.

If anyone has measurements for b-bodies around what has been talked about here let me know.



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Old 04-30-2005, 10:43 PM
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Hey guys check this one out!
I kept looking around and an old fav. site of mine Oldsmobility


Really good site and it give details as to how to and swap in stock GM or B-Body

From the site:
Pretty much what we had talked about from people who have done it.


While it is physically possible to put the '73-'79 A-body spindles on the '64-'72 A-body cars, this is NOT a bolt-in swap. The ball joint size and taper was changed, which means that you must use the '73-up ball joints. This will require machining the body of the lower ball joints to fit into the early control arms. Since the '73-'79 spindles are also taller than the early spindles it will require custom fabricated arms sold by Hotchkis or Global West. (See picture below.) Finally, the '73-'79 spindles will also require the later outer tie rod ends, again to match the different taper.


Stock upper control arm
and Global West's CNR-40

The bottom line is that after all this work, you will still only end up with the same size discs as if you had used the '67-'72 brakes. It would make more sense to get your hands on a set of B-body spindles with the 11" or 12" rotors. The work to install them is the same, but the brakes are bigger. (You will still need to get the custom upper a-arms mentioned above.)

Using stock A-body upper control arms with the taller '73-up B-body spindles will not work properly. Suspension geometry will be off and alignment will require over 1-1/4 inches of shims (if you're lucky) with probable steering column or exhaust interference.

However, in addition to the larger brakes, there are some advantages:

The upper ball joint is moved back to allow for higher caster alignment settings. Caster improves high speed stability and road feel. Caster also improves corner entry.

By using taller spindles and shorter upper control arms, camber curves are directly affected. The tire stays flatter on the road surface. This improves handling through the corners dramatically.

Tire life is improved because the tire remains flatter on the pavement.
Front ride height will drop 1-inch because of the taller spindle and lower ball joint combination. This lowers the center of gravity and improves vehicle appearance without sacrificing suspension travel. This combination also lowers the front roll center providing a more favorable roll axis.

The following donor cars provide 11-inch disc brake spindles:

Apollo 1975
GMC Sprint 1973-1977
Pontiac Full Size 1977-1981
Buick Full Size 1977-1981
Grand Prix 1973-1977
Pontiac Lemans 1973-1977
Buick Century 1973-1977

Monte Carlo 1973-1977
Riviera 1977-1978
Camaro 1970-1981
Nova 1974-1979
Seville 1976
Chevelle 1973-1977
Olds Cutlass 1973-1979

Skylark 1975-1979
Chevy Full Size 1977-1981
Omega 1975-1979
Ventura 1975-1977
Firebird 1970-1981
Phoenix 1977-1979


The following donor cars provide 12-inch disc brake spindles:

'77-94 Buick Full Size- Le Sabre Wagon / Electra Wagon
'77-'92 Olds Delta 88, Delta 88 Wagon and Olds 98
'77-'84 Cadillac Fleetwood and Deville
'85-'94 Cadillac Brougham and Fleetwood
'77-'86 Pontiac Full-Size Bonneville, Catalina, Grandville
'77-'96 Chevy Full Size Caprice, Impala, Belair, Biscayne
Important: There are two different types of 12-inch disc brake spindles. One version uses a small outer bearing measuring .750. The second type uses a larger outer bearing measuring .850. Use the large diameter outer bearing spindle.
Use 12-inch rotors off a 1988-1992 1LE Camaro/Firebird GM part #GM 18016035. 1LE rotors have the correct bolt pattern but use 12mm studs rather than 7/16 studs. You need to change the studs over to 7/16. The wheel stud holes in the rotor will have to be opened up slightly in order to convert to 7/16 studs. A 35/64 drill bit will do the job. A conversion kit is available to do this procedure. Be sure to order inner and outer bearings as well as the grease seals for both sides.
The brake caliper to use is off of a '70-'76 Camaro/Firebird. These calipers are the right width for 1LE rotors. Use an 1-1/8 master cylinder with power brakes and a 1-inch master for manual. If you have front drum brakes and converting to disc, you will need a proportioning valve. Use an adjustable proportioning valve rather than a standard valve. If you already have discs and upgrading to larger brakes for the handling kit, your original proportioning valve will work.


Thanks to everyone and hopefully this can help someone else!

Chris
Special thanks to Triaged
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Old 05-01-2005, 12:22 AM
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Besides Oldsmobility
here is another site for useing Tall Spindles

Chris
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