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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2007, 03:09 PM
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I found during the stripping of my 40-year-old Firebird that I was better off going to bare metal on the entire car. I used aircraft stripper to get the paint off down to the primer. The stripper didn't affect the primer like it did the paint, so I used my DA with 80-grit to go the rest of the way to the bare metal.

What I found underneath was that there were large areas where the painted surface actually looked solid and showed no outward signs of rust, but turned out to be hiding hundreds of pinhead-sized rust spots underneath. If I had not taken care of these surfaces properly, it would have been a major crises later on.

I am not saying that what I did is what everyone needs to do, because each car and situation is different. Only that this is what was best in my situation and my car.

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Old 09-28-2007, 08:06 PM
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Using the da is ok but unless you have a large air compressor
a six inch will use up your air in a hurry. its also will use a lot
of paper. i have did several vehicles recently, started with
the wire brush on large grinder. it will do the job, but best of
all i like the scotch brite discs. they really knock the paint.
have used aircraft stripper, it works but would not recommend
its nasty and i generally have to finish with sanding. if on
a budget use the wire brush, or go with what houston 54 recommended in an earlier post, the stripping discs.
stan g
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Old 09-30-2007, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Wow, there is a lot of unnecessary hard work going on here. First off, does it REALLY need to be stripped? That is one of the most over thought of mistakes there is. What are your expectations? Are you building a show car? Does the car or truck have many paint jobs on it, or is it failing in some way?




Using "AirCraft stripper" you do not put it on to "soften" the paint, you put it on to REMOVE the paint. It is a horribly messy, dangerous way to go and you don't "mix" it with sanding. You put it on, strip ALL the paint off down to bare metal then sand the bare metal.


Brian
I agree, not all cars need stripped. But I thought the question was " how to get the paint off".
We soften the paint up all the time with stripper. It is applied, then the loose crap is scraped off, then what is left is a "soft, easily sanded ". There is more than one way to use this product. Try it you might learn a new trick.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:02 PM
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stripping

The scotch brite on steroids is awsum for stripping paint on thin panels although a little expensive. I did a Beetle gas tank and it looked like chrome I wanted to just clear it. If the paint is not gummy I like to start with a De Walt buffer grinder with a coated 8" 80 grit self adhesive disc on a Strip It pad to get to the original paint or primer. Then I go to 120 or 150 grit. You have to heep moving over the entire panel to remove the paint with out over heating the panel. I use the super scotch brite pads in curved or less open areas. Then use a small sand blaster on the rust spots and inacessable spots. On cars that have real steel sandblasting does not seem to warp the panels. Keeping the blaster at an angle to the work lets the sand slide off the panel. I have been told the plastic beads are very gentle on sheet metal. I've done doors hoods and fenders that were off the car with paint stripper. Each method has its pluses and minuses. A little off topic is a internet video of a couple of rust remover that claim it is safe for stainless, glass, rubber and paint. I'm going to try some.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
A wire brush on a grinder will create quite a bit of heat. And honestly, it works horrible compared to other means. For instance a 3M "Clean and strip" disc or a 3m ROLOC "Surface conditioning disc". If you used either of these, you would never touch that wire brush again.

Brian
What electric sanders are compatible with these type of discs MartinSR? I guess you use them with a angles grinder, not an orbital sander???
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:21 PM
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I recently picked up a cheap Kawasaki variable speed grinder at tractor supply. Being a variable electric makes it a perfect grinder as you have control for those small areas and nooks and crannies.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdguy
I found during the stripping of my 40-year-old Firebird that I was better off going to bare metal on the entire car. I used aircraft stripper to get the paint off down to the primer. The stripper didn't affect the primer like it did the paint, so I used my DA with 80-grit to go the rest of the way to the bare metal.

What I found underneath was that there were large areas where the painted surface actually looked solid and showed no outward signs of rust, but turned out to be hiding hundreds of pinhead-sized rust spots underneath. If I had not taken care of these surfaces properly, it would have been a major crises later on.

I am not saying that what I did is what everyone needs to do, because each car and situation is different. Only that this is what was best in my situation and my car.
Most old cars have this same problem ,rust starting under the the top coats.If you have an old car and strip it you'll most like see these (age spots)
pretty much all of the ways to strip paint have been addressed.I've done ALL of them and theres a right way for every person and situation. You'll really need to try them all to see what works best for you,but I think you'll find the best way is to use a chemical stripper and a couple sharpened putty knives and a razor scraper when you get down to the last layer of primer.
Heres why ....
Grinding and sanding..........Grinding marks need to be filled ....using a da or a grinder is slow messy and expensive ,plus you can warp hoods and roofs easily and you an loose the sharpness of your body lines ,accidentally hit something like a door knob ,glass etc...A da will require more air than you probably can get and if you had a big compressor ,electricity is also expensive...So sanding or grinding is expensive and and risky for a newbie and any pro can tell you how many times he hit a molding when learning how to sand a car ,we all have .So unless the car is stripped of all chrome glass etc...and only has a little paint ,its not such a good option...
Abrasive blasting .....real good way to strip thicker metals such as ,frames wheels also floors trunks and engine compartments etc...but OMG is it messy without a some kind of booth to contain the used media....Also, for a newbie, its almost guaranteed that you'll distort your car beyond repair,if done on the exterior ...It should only be done by a pro and thats no guarantee they wont warp it...Again its expensive ,one of the most expensive way to strip and if not primed right away it'll start rusting right in front of your eyes...

Chemical stripping.......cheapest way (50.00 a gal),most cars can be stripped with one gallon ,two if theres a lot of paint , the biggest problem is getting a good stripper (I like aircraft stripper by Kleen strip) its easy to find but theres a few out there like jassco and a few others...Its messy yes,and its hard to control at first but if your prepared not to much trouble.
A few ways to prep for stripping is tp lay tar paper down and park the car on it ...triple tape all the gaps so the stripper wont get into the jambs and engine compartment etc...have a barrel handy .tape three layers of paper to the front of the hood so you can scrape the sludge on the paper ,pull it off and still have another layer of paper waiting ,some paints like lacquers turn to a water like viscosity and will want to run off so be waiting for it with three layers of paper on the front of the hood front and back of the roof and the back of the deck.and dont be in such a hurry to get the sludge off ,work the pile around as long as you can it'll save you a lot of stripper.when you get to that black primer at the very bottom just keep it soft with stripper and it'll come right off with the razor scraper....stripper needs to be applied thick to work best it traps the solvents so they dont evaporate so quick I big six' brush works well for me,two sharpened 6" putty knives to scrape paint and keep the old scraped up paint /stripper mixture in a pile...Wear protection and I think you'll find its the way to go as far as cost an needing the least experience...its quick too ,back in my prime I could strip two cars a day (10 hrs) now it takes two days a car...but they come out a lot nicer....
Like I said before there's a lot of ways to strip paint so try them all I think you'll find chem strip the most ecomical and quickest once the mess is dealt with and not an issue...

Acid vat dipped....probalby the best way there is ,it comes back all primed and ready to go..and.super expensive
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:33 AM
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Had my body Media (Soda) blasted. It does not warp the metal, and it comes back clean as the day it was new. The cost was not prohibative, and I did not have to deal with a Chemical mess. What you MUST DO is to get primer on it as soon as you get it back, if the local stripper does not offer it. I like doing it myself, so I can see any pitting of imperfections.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:36 AM
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Do a LOT of study on the soda blasting to be sure you do everything right. One wrong move with soda and your paint and primer will come off in sheets. Many paint manufacturers say NO a very big NO to soda.

Brian
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Most old cars have this same problem ,rust starting under the the top coats.If you have an old car and strip it you'll most like see these (age spots)
pretty much all of the ways to strip paint have been addressed.I've done ALL of them and theres a right way for every person and situation. You'll really need to try them all to see what works best for you,but I think you'll find the best way is to use a chemical stripper and a couple sharpened putty knives and a razor scraper when you get down to the last layer of primer.
Heres why ....
Grinding and sanding..........Grinding marks need to be filled ....using a da or a grinder is slow messy and expensive ,plus you can warp hoods and roofs easily and you an loose the sharpness of your body lines ,accidentally hit something like a door knob ,glass etc...A da will require more air than you probably can get and if you had a big compressor ,electricity is also expensive...So sanding or grinding is expensive and and risky for a newbie and any pro can tell you how many times he hit a molding when learning how to sand a car ,we all have .So unless the car is stripped of all chrome glass etc...and only has a little paint ,its not such a good option...
Abrasive blasting .....real good way to strip thicker metals such as ,frames wheels also floors trunks and engine compartments etc...but OMG is it messy without a some kind of booth to contain the used media....Also, for a newbie, its almost guaranteed that you'll distort your car beyond repair,if done on the exterior ...It should only be done by a pro and thats no guarantee they wont warp it...Again its expensive ,one of the most expensive way to strip and if not primed right away it'll start rusting right in front of your eyes...

Chemical stripping.......cheapest way (50.00 a gal),most cars can be stripped with one gallon ,two if theres a lot of paint , the biggest problem is getting a good stripper (I like aircraft stripper by Kleen strip) its easy to find but theres a few out there like jassco and a few others...Its messy yes,and its hard to control at first but if your prepared not to much trouble.
A few ways to prep for stripping is tp lay tar paper down and park the car on it ...triple tape all the gaps so the stripper wont get into the jambs and engine compartment etc...have a barrel handy .tape three layers of paper to the front of the hood so you can scrape the sludge on the paper ,pull it off and still have another layer of paper waiting ,some paints like lacquers turn to a water like viscosity and will want to run off so be waiting for it with three layers of paper on the front of the hood front and back of the roof and the back of the deck.and dont be in such a hurry to get the sludge off ,work the pile around as long as you can it'll save you a lot of stripper.when you get to that black primer at the very bottom just keep it soft with stripper and it'll come right off with the razor scraper....stripper needs to be applied thick to work best it traps the solvents so they dont evaporate so quick I big six' brush works well for me,two sharpened 6" putty knives to scrape paint and keep the old scraped up paint /stripper mixture in a pile...Wear protection and I think you'll find its the way to go as far as cost an needing the least experience...its quick too ,back in my prime I could strip two cars a day (10 hrs) now it takes two days a car...but they come out a lot nicer....
Like I said before there's a lot of ways to strip paint so try them all I think you'll find chem strip the most ecomical and quickest once the mess is dealt with and not an issue...

Acid vat dipped....probalby the best way there is ,it comes back all primed and ready to go..and.super expensive
Hey Deadbodyman. I'm a Hazmat driver and I know the dangers of these chemicals. I feel a lot of people who haven't been properly trained, like shade tree mechanics and newbies shouldn't use them. You must, not might, take every precaution when dealing with these chemicals. Some of this stuff can seriously hurt you, like dissolve your flesh etc. On top of that, most people don't have the proper setup to dispose of these chemicals at home. You should not be letting this stuff soak into the ground or your driveway/garage. If you got a proper place and protective clothing like rubber suit, chem gloves, respirator, and chem goggles, then go for it. I highly, highly, advise those who don't to do it the old fashioned way or use it sparingly.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:28 AM
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I am with you on the SERIOUS warning of the dangers. But on the same regard once you use them for just a minute or two you KNOW the dangers, they aren't for the faint of heart, you KNOW the dangers the second you get a tiny bit on your fore arm, or one tiny whiff of it, there is NO denying this is some SERIOUS stuff.

Full plastic suit, that is serious overkill for what most people are using it for. Respirator, I would say that is a GOOD idea, a place to dispose of it properly, yeah if you really want to be Mr Love the earth, but in the real world you aren't using much, everyone in your neighborhood isn't using it so the land fill isn't going to be filled up with it. Let the stuff dry on the paper and it is much easier to dispose of.

But without a doubt it needs a LOT of respect or it WILL hurt you. I was doing a Semi truck back thirty years ago and brushed the hair from my eyes (long haired Hippy I was) and got some stripper on my fore head! YEOW BABY, I NEVER DID THAT AGAIN!.

And my friend who stripped my 68 Camaro for me (in one afternoon) he didn't have finger prints for quite some time!

DBM laid out a great basic plan on using stripper. One thing I would like to add is personally I say do ONE or two panels at the MOST at a time. Most people (even seasoned hobbiests) will be SERIOUSLY overwhelmed stripping an entire car. It is SERIOUSLY overwhelming standing there looking at a bare metal car with striper all over the place and piles of wrinkled up paper all covered with striper and brushes on the ground in puddles and metal starting to rust, it is SERIOUSLY overwhelming. See the photo below with my son (then about 13) working on a customers Bug eye Sprite that he had stripped like this and couldn't finish leaving it to rust. The second picture is with it done after thousands of dollars spent with me.

He sanded the paint off but you get the idea, strip one panel at a time.

And remember that stripper is like a friggin live animal wanting to climb up on other cars and stuff. It WILL get on something else like your finished 32 Ford show car that is sitting under a cover on the other side of the shop. This stuff is VICIOUS and will SOMEHOW don't ask me how, but SOMEHOW get on stuff you don't want it on, GIVE IT A LOT OF RESPECT.

Brian
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
I am with you on the SERIOUS warning of the dangers. But on the same regard once you use them for just a minute or two you KNOW the dangers, they aren't for the faint of heart, you KNOW the dangers the second you get a tiny bit on your fore arm, or one tiny whiff of it, there is NO denying this is some SERIOUS stuff.

Full plastic suit, that is serious overkill for what most people are using it for. Respirator, I would say that is a GOOD idea, a place to dispose of it properly, yeah if you really want to be Mr Love the earth, but in the real world you aren't using much, everyone in your neighborhood isn't using it so the land fill isn't going to be filled up with it. Let the stuff dry on the paper and it is much easier to dispose of.

But without a doubt it needs a LOT of respect or it WILL hurt you. I was doing a Semi truck back thirty years ago and brushed the hair from my eyes (long haired Hippy I was) and got some stripper on my fore head! YEOW BABY, I NEVER DID THAT AGAIN!.

And my friend who stripped my 68 Camaro for me (in one afternoon) he didn't have finger prints for quite some time!

DBM laid out a great basic plan on using stripper. One thing I would like to add is personally I say do ONE or two panels at the MOST at a time. Most people (even seasoned hobbiests) will be SERIOUSLY overwhelmed stripping an entire car. It is SERIOUSLY overwhelming standing there looking at a bare metal car with striper all over the place and piles of wrinkled up paper all covered with striper and brushes on the ground in puddles and metal starting to rust, it is SERIOUSLY overwhelming. See the photo below with my son (then about 13) working on a customers Bug eye Sprite that he had stripped like this and couldn't finish leaving it to rust. The second picture is with it done after thousands of dollars spent with me.

He sanded the paint off but you get the idea, strip one panel at a time.

And remember that stripper is like a friggin live animal wanting to climb up on other cars and stuff. It WILL get on something else like your finished 32 Ford show car that is sitting under a cover on the other side of the shop. This stuff is VICIOUS and will SOMEHOW don't ask me how, but SOMEHOW get on stuff you don't want it on, GIVE IT A LOT OF RESPECT.

Brian
So the rust on that car your son was sanding came from doing too much at one time. That's another question I have. One guy said that Loctite would keep the rust off. I figure though that Epoxy Primer is best and I don't have the tools to spray that stuff. They do make it in a can now though.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyTodd
So the rust on that car your son was sanding came from doing too much at one time. That's another question I have. One guy said that Loctite would keep the rust off. I figure though that Epoxy Primer is best and I don't have the tools to spray that stuff. They do make it in a can now though.
Yes, the car was stripped, the guy was overwhelmed and it sat too long before he gave up and brought it to me.

ONE PANEL AT A TIME then apply epoxy primer. Yes they do make it in an aerosol Solvent resistant (REAL) 2K epoxy in an aerosol can!!!!


But doing a complete car is pretty tough. But it could be done. The other option is to apply some cheapie aerosol primer then sand it off when you really do the body and paint.

Brian
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Yes, the car was stripped, the guy was overwhelmed and it sat too long before he gave up and brought it to me.

ONE PANEL AT A TIME then apply epoxy primer. Yes they do make it in an aerosol Solvent resistant (REAL) 2K epoxy in an aerosol can!!!!


But doing a complete car is pretty tough. But it could be done. The other option is to apply some cheapie aerosol primer then sand it off when you really do the body and paint.

Brian
Cool. How long would the cheapie aerosol primer hold up out in the elements Here is some pics Brian of the rust on the guy I'm doing. How would you tackle this situation? The metal still feel very solid.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:01 PM
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At the shop where I can make a mess, probably sand blasting most of that out. At home, a Roloc surface conditioning disc to remove the majority then spot blaster to get the tight spots.

What are "the elements" you are talking about? I sure as heck wouldn't want it to be rained on or high humidity even. If you don't have a garage to do this, honestly, I would be thinking about a different plan. Fix stuff like this rust and get it into epoxy and then wait until you can afford to have someone do it or until you have a garage to do it in.

Brian
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