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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2011, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
most cam co. have a copy of gms 30/30 solid cam .but youll need screw in rocker arm studs and guide plates [power pack heads {are plenifull here in michigan} most hot rodders have a set burried in their garages gathering dust next car show you go to tape a note on your back that your looking for them !! ods are someone will tap you on the shoulder!*******
not for a 265 !!! read my earler post !!302 , 327, 350 my mistake I need to proof reed more

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
The highest HP 327 was the '64-65 fuel injected, at 375 BHP, which was measured at the flywheel, without any driven auxiliaries, no water pump, trans, etc. The same years carbed model was 365 BHP, both produced 350 foot pounds of torque.

Not that they weren't a great motor, and a good choice for nostalgic car. The 265, 283 and 302's all shared the 3" stroke, the 302 used a 4" bore.

Back in the day they did wind 'em tight if they were built right! Like what's said above...it's old stuff.

You can run diesel oil, i.e. Rotella 15W40, in gas engines without problems, other than the cost. I've run it in Alaska in the winter, in my boat, motor home and use it in my prostreet blower car.
Zink levels dropped drasticly in rotella and all oils !! they just have enough to say its there not enough for protection, check out up to date tests, not out dated web sites .the late model diesel oil has no zink the early rotella is getting scarse fleets here stocked up for their early diesels, harley oil is high in zink, barry grant oil is high in zink check out the porche web site no zink in oil!!I wont take the chance! Chevrolet uses a zink adative now when they change oil on early vehicles, you can buy it at the gm dealers and horsepower in books and speck books arnt near what actual dino readings were 427 chevys were putting out well over 500 horse on penskys dinos but books say 425 ask guys on here that ran some dynos & see whats what 64 4o9s were kicken almost 6oo horse and thats not the z 11. they took peek horspower readings at lower rpm like 425 horse at 4500 rpm when the eng on a dino was still building horsepower and torgue to 6800 rpm you ever wonder why theres only 5 hp difference between single quad and dual quad engs same year and only 10 horse between injection & carberated it was all manipulated .I ran dinos in the 60s i dinoed high performance fords crystlers & chevys and not one came close to spec horse power! and these days horse power ratings are being inflated and the new hemi isnt a hemi .and old school is good school becouse 327 375 horse vettes were running stock class 13 second quarters on little 6 inch wide hard rubber tires and 283 power pack wagons were running high 14 s with little 6 inch wide tires and we used to cool our super chargers with nitrus becouse we were so close to 100% efficiency it wouldn't give you 1 horse power diesel oil has special anti ash and cleaning agents that arnt good for gas engs thats why its called diesel oil and 15 40 oil robs horse/power and at rpm cavatates oil pumps! alot of us are old and make mistakes typing n skip words and i take for granted people know what i mean!! thats a mistake!

Last edited by painted jester; 02-07-2011 at 12:37 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 12:47 AM
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The point about the 327/365/375 HP engine HP specs are that that's what the engine made- using loose correction factors, no accessories, no air cleaner element, et cetera. These engines were INFLATED if anything, not deflated, HP-wise.

There were (by ALL manufacturers) deflated HP published for the reasons stated above- class breaks and insurance. But I have NEVER seen any production 409 that made anywhere near an honest 600(!!) HP- nor was there ever any indication of this amount of HP being made by ET or trap speeds, or by top speed runs made back in the day.

It's well accepted that there were some optional high performance 427 engines that were downplayed, along w/other engines like the SBC 302, pathetically rated at 290 HP. But that was not the case w/the 327 engines cited- they were all about the biggest possible numbers that could be published, insurance, etc. be damned.

AFA 15w-40 "robbing HP", maybe if compared to 10w-30, all 2 or 3 HP. But there's nada 'wrong' w/using 15w-40 oil, if that's what fits the bill.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:12 AM
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I do not intend this post (or the previous posts) to contradict you. It is for give and take, not an argument. I respect your knowledge from "back in the day", having lived it myself.

One reason there weren't a huge difference between single 4-bbl and dual 4-bbl engines that were otherwise identical, is twofold:

The carbs were small, but even one was enough to supply a small displacement SBC w/enough airflow at peak power. Adding a second carb was borne of marketing, not of necessity.

The low rise dual four intakes were marginal at best. A single high rise 4-bbl intake w/a (then unavailable) 600 CFM carb would have blown the dual four set-up away. It does today, that's for sure.

I recall, vaguely, some tests done on an L88 clone. It was done up supposedly as close to original as was possible. The engine put out

Another L88 clone, this one using a Crane cam w/specs updated from the original, and using open headers and the factory dual plane intake and an 850 CFM Holley, made about 525 HP @ 6100 RPM. A hell of a lot more than the 435 HP factory rating.

If the cam specs, the head flow, displacement and CR (which is almost always over estimated) is all taken into account, it's a little more obvious what engines are over- or under-rated, and that none are capable of 1.5 HP/ci-plus output, as delivered.

But then there are guys who believed a stock Hemi 426 made 800-plus HP, when a supposed "stock" engine dyno test was done on a TV show 4-5 years ago that cited:

Quote:
Chevrolet 409
Pontiac 421 SuperDuty
Ford Tunnelport 427
Mopar 426 Hemi
Chevrolet 427

All engines must be completely stock, no 'ringers'.
Stock cams, nothing more than a .60 over bore and stock carburation.

"Results":
1962 Chevy 409 - stock HP rating : 409hp
Result: 406Hp 430TQ

1964 Ford 427 - stock HP rating 425 HP
Result: 637 HP 554 TQ

1963 Pontiac 421 SD - stock HP rating 405 HP
Result: 488 HP 470 TQ

1966 Dodge 426 Hemi - stock HP rating 425 HP
Result: 820 HP(!!) 689 TQ

1967 Chevy 427 L88 - stock HP rating 425 HP
Result: 527 HP 501 TQ
Closer to reality was when the NHRA tested the engines back then to see how far off they were from the published figures. This was for determining class breaks. The 12.5:1 dual four "drag race" Hemi was factored at 500 HP, IIRC.

What I find fascinating is just how f-ing strong the current crop of GM/FoMoCo/MOPAR engines are! They actually produce a LOT more HP than the old school Hemi/427-454/Tunnel Port/fill-in-the-blank engines, when you consider the fuel used, the correction factors, the emissions-related compromises, etc.

We are in the golden age of high performance- RIGHT NOW!!
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:01 PM
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cobalt: I realy wish I saw that show is it available online !! Im also interested in a couple of lines you wrote that didnt come through!! no arguments just different experiances 365 hp small blocks hp rating in books were taken at 365 hp at 3500 rpm bhp and 350# of torque were taken at 4000 rpm but on our dinos at 4000 rpm hp and torque were still climbeing ! to about 5200 rpm. , the 409 that was dinod was a chevy sponserd stock class eng .{ and I admit i round things off } most 409s we dinod didnt even come up to spec. hp. never dinod a hemi that high they were usualy around 675 horse and the ford 427 tunnel ports were the engs that were off the map. only did a couple of 460 horse 454s {I always said 454s were boat anchors] but they were well over 500 horse and at a lot lower rpm!! both of us know you can have 50 identicle engs dino em and not have 2 alike [and then once in a while you get a one in a million freek ] did they test any 413 or 426 wedges id be intereted in their numbers ^@ 409 were slugs 63 better and 64 was the best! dinod a z ll cant remember whos, maybe wally booth, it was right there with the hemi!!! factory took em away from the racers before they finnished the year!! too bad

Last edited by painted jester; 02-07-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:38 PM
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Cobalt: I ran b gas with a 64 409 cross rammed with two holly 3 barrels reworked{remember those} in a 38 plymouth 4 door with a 4000 stall faibanks converter 4 speed turbo hydo and 513 pontiac large housing rear end
I loved 409s and 413&426 wedges . They need a sight here for people to kick ideas around and experiances!! I tried the lounge and only found old threads. I do need a favor I lost a formula: to get close to compression loss with large ovelap & tight centerline cams [not an exact formula but got you close] most people never heard of it . but I wrote it down years ago use it a lot moved and cant find it.( my above post is suposed to read 62 409s were slugs) I dont know how tht happened I dont under stand why they dinoed that perticular eng!!!!! 67 L88s we dinoed were around 650 horseand ive heard of them being dinoed higher?

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:14 PM
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cobalt: I think

I think friction for one was a factor in the differance between old and new{ I woudnt use the old oils any more} carbs, injection, definatly advances in materials, Filters {I used to run sodium valves for christ sake good then not seen much now!! Just look at tires now , the best I could get then was wide o's or red line and drag tires were recaped caslers or race masters!!!!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:48 PM
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The name of the TV show was The American Muscle Car. The title of the show was "The Fastest Muscle Car Engines Of All Time", it would have aired in 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I recall, vaguely, some tests done on an L88 clone. It was done up supposedly as close to original as was possible. The engine put out...
Should have removed this- I cannot locate off hand my notes on any BBC info. I have a bunch of longhand spiral notebooks (anyone remember pre-computer/interweb days?), and it is one that's missing at the moment.

I seem to remember the number being a bit lower than I'd have expected. I want to say under 500 HP, but not by a lot. I also do remember the engine being built w/10.5:1 CR, not the 12.5:1 it should have been. But other than that, I'm at a loss as to what the specific numbers and details were. But I have no real problem believing it to have been upwards of 550 HP, blueprinted.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:36 PM
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265 starter mounting

beware some 265's had no provision for mounting the starter to the block.

Cast iron power glides and cast iron bell housings for 3 on the tree used starters with 3 horizontal bolts into the bell housing.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnun12
beware some 265's had no provision for mounting the starter to the block.
No provision for a full-flow canister oil filter either (spin on oil filters not yet around), except for an optional filter that tapped into the front oil gallery and drained back through the intake into the lifter valley.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:18 PM
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Ok well i know my dad has had this truck and motor for atleast 30 years, how do i find out what kind of motor it is exactly, where are numbers on block??? And now i am actually thinking about super charging it, just thinking. I used to have a 500hp turboed car a few years ago and kinda miss boost. What do i need to look into for a supercharger???
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2011, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lossleeper
What do i need to look into for a supercharger???
Maybe the medicine cabinet if it's a 265.

The casting numbers are on the back of the block, driver side, top. They'll be something like 3703524 or 3720991 if it's a 265. The '55 engine (c/n 3703524)was the one w/o a normal oil filter.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:35 AM
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471 looks good is plenty for a 265 BDS makes good blower cams, stock cams for low hp engs work fine. wider the overlap and higher the duration the more boost you lose out the exhaust ,blowers produce power from idle to top end cast cranks fine bellow 5500 rpm above that use forged steel. 265s had forged steel cranks so you already have one ! low compression forged pistons a must. intake springs must be heavy supercharger will blow them off their seats! below 5500 rpm good shot peened stock rods are fine 6 to 10 # boost is good street boost. all you have to do with a super charger to change boost is a pully change and adjust pop off valve {always have a spare belt on hand } you dont need headers .supercharger blows exhaust out when fresh charge comes in{ if your building street}and Im not saying:dont run header!! you need a good carb dont just bolt any thing down use some formulase and find someone there to help you dont want it lean. fuel and timeing are criticle element depending on boost you dont need huge valves and expensive heads.superchargers actualy push your pistons down
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:08 AM
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471 I hit the wrong button snt that last one early

471 looks good is plenty for a 265! BDS makes good blower cams, stock cams for low hp engs work fine. wider the overlap and higher the duration the more boost you lose out the exhaust ,blowers produce power from idle to top end cast cranks fine bellow 5500 rpm above that use forged steel. 265s had forged steel cranks so you already have one ! low compression forged pistons a must. intake springs must be heavy supercharger will blow them off their seats! below 5500 rpm good shot peened stock rods are fine 6 to 10 # boost is good street boost. all you have to do with a super charger to change boost is a pully change and adjust pop off valve {always have a spare belt on hand } you dont need headers .supercharger blows exhaust out when fresh charge comes in{ if your building street}and Im not saying:dont run header!! you need a good carb dont just bolt any thing down use some formulase and find someone there to help you dont want it lean better to start a little rich work down. fuel and timeing are criticle element depending on boost you dont need huge valves and expensive heads.superchargers actualy push your pistons down and blow fuel and air in thus your eng isnt using as much horse power pulling in the intake charge . There are a lot of super chargers out there real nice kits, if you call any co. they will send you litrature go to the library a lot of good books. larrys supercharger service ,larry anderson a real good shop,tipton mich. 517 431 2313 area code has been changed operaters connected me last year. I only mentioned 471 becouse it looks impresive it doesnt dwarf the motor and it actualy builds more power then a 671 becouse it doesn't take as much horse power to drive it, On a small block.

Last edited by painted jester; 02-09-2011 at 02:16 AM. Reason: sent the last one early dont know how
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:42 AM
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265

my old books show a safe maximum bore of .030 on a 265! I dont think you have a 265!
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