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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
That car had stock rocker arms and valve springs, NO headporting and made 456HP @7700 and they spun it to 8200. For using stock parts and a set of stock heads that people claim make no power and are old technology,That car Hauled the mail! I'm sure having Grumpy involved didnt hurt much either.
No doubt! That was a Biscayne, wasn't it? Not exactly a little car if it was.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:49 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Tell it to a REAL ENGINEER, Rodger Huntington. These are the lowest figures I've actually ever seen that were supposed to be correct, yet they STILL have the 302 well over 300 HP. From HERE:

Make/---------------Adv.-------Adv.---------Actual
Engine size-----------HP--------Torque-------HP

Buick 455 Stage 1----360@5000--510@2800--420@5400
Camaro Z-28 302-----290@5800--290@4200--310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78----375@5600--415@3600--400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88----430@5200--450@4400--480@6400
Mopar 340------------275@5000--340@3200--320@5600
Mopar 440-4 bbl------375@4600--480@3200--410@5400
Mopar 440-6 bbl------390@4700--490@3200--430@5600
Mopar 426-Hemi------425@5000--490@4000--470@6000
Mustang Boss 302----290@5800--290@4300--310@6200
Ford 351 Cleveland---300@5400--380@3400--340@5600
Mustang Boss 351----330@5400--370@4000--360@6000
Mustang 428---------335@5200--440@3400--410@5600
Mustang Boss 429----375@5200--450@3400--420@5600
Olds 455 W-30-------370@5300--500@3600--440@5600
Olds 350 W-31-------325@5400--360@3600--350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400--366@5100--445@3600--410@5600

Written by Roger Huntington of the Society of Automotive Engineers
I looked at the thread, are there any details on where these numbers came from and how the test was ran, otherwise I can claim eleventy billion horsepower just as easily.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I looked at the thread, are there any details on where these numbers came from and how the test was ran, otherwise I can claim eleventy billion horsepower just as easily.
They come from the same place YOUR info comes from- out of a bung hole.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:18 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
They come from the same place YOUR info comes from- out of a bung hole.
I haven't given any info that can't be found in a thousand places online and is pretty much considered public domain. Cam specs, flow specs, basic part info that can be found anywhere.

The best part is that I am only saying that at best GM was accurate, I'm not the one making outlandish claims, only the one questioning them.

In modified form I'm sure those engine could make plenty of power, rework the heads, go with a roller cam, better intake, and headers and you could easily add 100hp+ and look stock to the average joe (besides the headers), but the parts that came on this engine from the factory were not amazing by any means.

You could probably pick up 70hp just by opening the pushrod pinch, going with 1.6 rockers, a good valve job, and running headers which are all cheap and easy to do- but that's not stock.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:24 AM
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You said in another thread "...dz302 made even the claimed 275hp I'd be impressed." Where did you get THAT info from? Jerked it right outta your ***- that's where.

Your comment about the P-rod pinch being worth any real power shows just how little you understand about the things you claim to be expert on.

Get your hands greasy and bust a few knuckles for 40 more years- instead of getting paper cuts- and then get back to me.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:37 AM
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Guys you need to tone it down a bit. I know you're both passionate about this stuff. Just agree to disagree and move on.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 08:08 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Have you worked on a set of those heads? I've done a few and with a 160-165 runnner volume your csa is far too small to support a 2.02" valve, the prp is worth a lot.

Btw busted knuckles are just a reminder you did something wrong.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
busted knuckles are just a reminder you did something wrong.
Point well taken. I forgot you make no mistakes.

BTW, there ARE other ways to get your knuckles busted, other than doing "something wrong".
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 08:50 AM
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I will sum it up like this:

There are literally thousands of opinions that say the engine made something more- not less- than the 290 HP GM claimed.

So far, that is against ONE person- w/o credentials of any sort, who wasn't even alive to see these engines run in their original state- who opines differently.

I will take my chances that the mega-thousand to one odds, including what I have actually seen, will be in my favor.

My mistake was to have gotten caught up in your trollish posts.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 09:34 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I will sum it up like this:

There are literally thousands of opinions that say the engine made something more- not less- than the 290 HP GM claimed.

So far, that is against ONE person- w/o credentials of any sort, who wasn't even alive to see these engines run in their original state- who opines differently.

I will take my chances that the mega-thousand to one odds, including what I have actually seen, will be in my favor.

My mistake was to have gotten caught up in your trollish posts.
In other words you presented the opinion of thousands of people, and I presented facts that demonstrate a fault in such an opinion.

BUT some people do value opinions, so people can read this thread and decide if cold iron facts (quite literally) or 2nd hand opinion (in most of those thousands of peoples' case) is more valid.

As for myself, it is no secret that I have never had much use for opinion.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
As for myself, it is no secret that I have never had much use for opinion.
Other than your own.

AFA any "facts" you have presented, what facts? I see nada. No links, no empirical knowledge- nada. You say I am relying on opinions. Absolutely. Along w/ my experience w/these engines, and having been active during the time period when these engines were being debuted.

But- you are doing the exact same thing- minus the empirical knowledge that comes from actually DOING rather than day dreaming. Unless you have yourself flowed the heads, intakes, carbs, dynoed the engines, etc. you are also relying on other sources for your "info"- aka gathering opinions.

Lastly, you can't seem to acknowledge anything outside of your limited scope. Books are fine, but they are FAR less that the whole picture w/o tempering that book "knowledge" w/literal hands-on experience.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
No doubt! That was a Biscayne, wasn't it? Not exactly a little car if it was.
Actually its a 68 Z28 Camaro. The car is very well documented over the years. Here is the complete info http://www.z28camaro.com/oldrel.html

I believe the car was sold for a good chunk of cash.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 10:06 AM
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AP72... Have you ever been to a NRHA National event? After watching the Fuel cars spend the time and watch the Super Stock and Stock classes. There is a bunch of different stock classes. You might even read up on some of the rules these guys have to follow since you like to read up on stuff. I understand your a little caught up on "Theory". But these guys will throw your theory right out the window. I have no Idea how these guys make so much power with what they have,I wish I did. Theory dont put numbers on the board.. HP does
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 10:13 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
AP72... Have you ever been to a NRHA National event? After watching the Fuel cars spend the time and watch the Super Stock and Stock classes. There is a bunch of different stock classes. You might even read up on some of the rules these guys have to follow since you like to read up on stuff. I understand your a little caught up on "Theory". But these guys will throw your theory right out the window. I have no Idea how these guys make so much power with what they have,I wish I did. Theory dont put numbers on the board.. HP does

I love super stock racing, but it has very little to do with a stock engine. They do make some incredible power for using "stock" parts though. The suspension and drivetrain is even more impressive.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
Actually its a 68 Z28 Camaro.
Ok. I must be thinking of the other "Old Reliable" cars that must've come after the Camaro. Old Reliable 2 was a '62 Bubbletop, Old Reliable 4 was '63 Impala, etc. They were Bill Jenkins' cars, IIRC.

I wonder how it happened that a '68 Camaro would be the 'original' Old Reliable and would precede the others?
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