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Old 01-09-2013, 01:19 PM
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sbc 350 build help

Hey guys
My name is Gatlan.
Building a sbc for use in my offroad race truck to be raced in SNORE starting next year.
Aquired the motor that was built by a friend of a friend. Long story short went to fire it last night and no oil pressure from priming. Didnt trust it and took it apart to inspect. Oil pump driveshaft was "missing"!!! Decided to do a full rebuild.
here is what I have found about it so far.
4 bolt main
second gen block (pass side low mount dipstick)
z8222 pistons
crank casting # = 14088528
rod casting # = has gm stamped on rod (stock????)
Pro comp 64cc 190 alum heads (I know not the best but I am going to use them for budget help) the ports have been cleaned up and should work for my intentions
1.6 roller rockers
2.02 in 1.6ex valves

Its not a drag car, its a 4500 lb offroad race truck. Engine needs to be reliable and have good power from 2k up to 6800 or so. Transmission will be a th400 (unsure on converter as I have not purchased one). Tranny will be full manual.

Need help decided on a cam and if I should put different pistons in it.
current pistions are z8222 (casting number) with a dish top and 4 valve reliefs. Any idea if these will make any decent compression numbers? I was told the block was bored 30 over when these pistons were installed. Bottom end will be getting all new bearings (including cam bearings) upon reassembly and a new oil pump and driveshaft. I have a crane cam PN=113901cr but idk if its any good for my application

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Old 01-09-2013, 01:36 PM
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is this a class 8 truck? are you looking for a race engine to be competitive? what are the rules?
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:37 PM
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Race truck means race gas only??.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:46 PM
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it is a 1400 truck. No rules on drivetrain. Steel cab and working door are some of the only rules other than safety requirements...

That being said, I dont need a fire breathing powerplant. Something reliable with decent power will work fine in this application. I would like to keep it 91 pump gas friendly, maybe run 50/50 on race day and give it a lil timing.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:52 PM
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repair your engine and the 113901 cam could be stepped up a little.Are you using fuel injection? If you test fit your engine and can post the deck specs and head chamber CCs that would help.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaddon View Post
Hey guys
My name is Gatlan.
Building a sbc for use in my offroad race truck to be raced in SNORE starting next year.
Aquired the motor that was built by a friend of a friend. Long story short went to fire it last night and no oil pressure from priming. Didnt trust it and took it apart to inspect. Oil pump driveshaft was "missing"!!! Decided to do a full rebuild.
here is what I have found about it so far.
4 bolt main
second gen block (pass side low mount dipstick)
z8222 pistons
crank casting # = 14088528
rod casting # = has gm stamped on rod (stock????)
Pro comp 64cc 190 alum heads (I know not the best but I am going to use them for budget help) the ports have been cleaned up and should work for my intentions
1.6 roller rockers
2.02 in 1.6ex valves

Its not a drag car, its a 4500 lb offroad race truck. Engine needs to be reliable and have good power from 2k up to 6800 or so. Transmission will be a th400 (unsure on converter as I have not purchased one). Tranny will be full manual.

Need help decided on a cam and if I should put different pistons in it.
current pistions are z8222 (casting number) with a dish top and 4 valve reliefs. Any idea if these will make any decent compression numbers? I was told the block was bored 30 over when these pistons were installed. Bottom end will be getting all new bearings (including cam bearings) upon reassembly and a new oil pump and driveshaft. I have a crane cam PN=113901cr but idk if its any good for my application
I'd recommend a flat top, forged piston simple reasons the Pro-Comp head likes more compression while at the same time the piston needs some insurance against detonation. The flat top gets the compression up while the forging provides a stronger base to resist forces and temperatures. Go with a 2618 alloy piston rather than 4032. If this was a street engine or a class restricted to hypers I go with them, but since this can expect some abuse and you aren't limited, then run a better piston, you'll sleep better.

The Pro-Comp also works better with a fast acting cam avoid older designs with long ramps on this head as these old and slow ramp cams bleed compression which is bad waiting for the intake valve to close; while this head isn't a really good breather at low lifts so you don't get good flow initiation during overlap. So the best thing is to get to valve open fast and far with these heads. There isn't a lot that can be done to improve this, although, flattening the area crown area between the valves under the spark plug along with a 30 degree back cut and polish on the valves also helps this head. Racing and pursuit of performance is as much, or more, in understanding the foibles of the parts you have as it is spending big bucks for some other parts with a different set of problems. If you understand the Pro-Comps they can be pretty competitive. Certainly not the best a lot better than the rap they get.

Bogie
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:32 PM
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Procomps should be good 210s may have been a better choice in the end. I got a feeling you will be looking for more motor pretty quickly.

I love low budget racing but you combine unrestricted racing and rednecks you can bet every truck out there has a little sumpum sumpum under the hood. I would think most guys will have 15 k in the motor. Trust me i live in the southern half of my state. LoL

Also a well built race motor will do its job. Either make it thru a season or makeit thru a race. If you need it to last the race season you better go with a forged rotating assembly. Cast stock stuff will not take crazy abuse from offroad racing. It will last a few races then go up in smoke. Or if you are easy on it you will be last. Best to build a motor that will last the abuse you plan to give it. Fyi i am sure i could drive a new truck off the lot in the morning and blow the motor from staight driving it hard off road or on before lunchtime probably a lot sooner. Make it bullet proof then make it bullit proof... If you get my old guy humor. But basicly make it so you can stand on it the entire race and still drive it home if the tow rig fails.

You may not be able to afford the power of other racers but its cheaper if your motor is strong and worth every penny to the be able to race next week. If you smoke a motor that cost all your money because that is how much race engines cost. Your done for the season. Fix this problem when it only cost a few hundred more bucks and not the price of a new block and every other part on the engine. Figure it this way if an engine fails at race rpms you will loose 60 percent of your good parts or money. Give or take a block or two. This has been my luck.

Sorry for the book hope this helps.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:32 PM
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thanks for the help guys! Dropped the crank off to get polished today at Smokey's speed and machine here in Oceanside, Ca. He took a look at the block and thought just a light hone and it will be good to go. Tomorrow I'm gonna talk to Dan Crower (crower performance cams) who used to sponsor me in mx about a cam for this motor. We will see what his suggestions are. Thanks Bogie for the cam specs on what works with these heads. Do you think these are specs that could be reached starting with the crane I currently have? Or would it be best to start with a fresh base in your experience? Thanks for the opinions... I am only 23 and am new to the v8 world. Grew up around single cyl motors (motocross) and have learned how to make some good power for my race bikes but now a cage is in order to keep me from getting hurt anymore! To many metal implants so far...
Gatlan
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:38 PM
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If you know crower,he will fix you up.
Im glad my MX career was short.I ruined my right elbow. Went into airplanes for awhile,back to cars now. when I raced MX we used 2 strokes and did not have much travel,no disc brakes or water cooling.even had metal gas tanks on some bikes
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaddon View Post
thanks for the help guys! Dropped the crank off to get polished today at Smokey's speed and machine here in Oceanside, Ca. He took a look at the block and thought just a light hone and it will be good to go. Tomorrow I'm gonna talk to Dan Crower (crower performance cams) who used to sponsor me in mx about a cam for this motor. We will see what his suggestions are. Thanks Bogie for the cam specs on what works with these heads. Do you think these are specs that could be reached starting with the crane I currently have? Or would it be best to start with a fresh base in your experience? Thanks for the opinions... I am only 23 and am new to the v8 world. Grew up around single cyl motors (motocross) and have learned how to make some good power for my race bikes but now a cage is in order to keep me from getting hurt anymore! To many metal implants so far...
Gatlan
I recommend this to everyone. Pretty much the standard for engine math. The book also covers a lot of other topics in the forth edition.

Amazon.com: Four-Stroke Performance Tuning: Fourth edition (9780857331250): A Graham Bell: Books Amazon.com: Four-Stroke Performance Tuning: Fourth edition (9780857331250): A Graham Bell: Books


You may want to google david vizzard he seems to be the latest guru in cheap chevy builds not there arent a millions others out there. He has some good youtubes and web right ups. I think his focus is hp and not really low haul racing. Those guys dont talk about cheap unless to say it aint!
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:19 PM
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Maybe you ask Dave if he has some one dyno pull solid roller cam take outs that would fit you needs and would give you a deal on those.He builds some really nice stuff.Maybe entice him with decals or some paint on the side of the truck.Sort of a sponsorship for a deal on a cam.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
If you know crower,he will fix you up.
Im glad my MX career was short.I ruined my right elbow. Went into airplanes for awhile,back to cars now. when I raced MX we used 2 strokes and did not have much travel,no disc brakes or water cooling.even had metal gas tanks on some bikes

wow I am amazed what you guys did with those bikes every time i see one! We are def spoiled now with the Fuel injected 4strokes and air forks... It was a great career just wasn't gonna pay my expensive habbits of cars/trucks. Decided becoming a mechanical engineer and finishing my race truck was better 3 months till I graduate with my BSME.


I know Dan at Crower very well, he used to do my mx cams. What is some good contact info for Dave? I would like to get as many cam opinions as i can for this build.

Thanks
Gatlan
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaddon View Post
wow I am amazed what you guys did with those bikes every time i see one! We are def spoiled now with the Fuel injected 4strokes and air forks... It was a great career just wasn't gonna pay my expensive habbits of cars/trucks. Decided becoming a mechanical engineer and finishing my race truck was better 3 months till I graduate with my BSME.


I know Dan at Crower very well, he used to do my mx cams. What is some good contact info for Dave? I would like to get as many cam opinions as i can for this build.

Thanks
Gatlan
That was brain fa*t on my part.I meant Dan.
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