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Old 10-24-2011, 02:30 AM
SB7 SB7 is offline
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SBC 350 Wont Rev Past 4500rpm?

Hey i finally got my engine running good, it starts excellent, idles strong but wont rev past 4500 rpm? here's my set up

- Block 350 bored .030 over with some kind of 4 valve relief pistons?
- Heads are 882's that have z28 springs, stock 1.5 rockers
- Cam is a howards cam 220in/230ex .050 470in/470ex lift installed straight up
- Intake edelbrock performer, spread to square 1inch adapter, 4160c Holley 600cfm electric choke, 14x3 K&N filter.
- Exhaust Hedman shorty headers, duel 2.5 inch piping with an H pipe and some magnaflow mufflers
- Ignition reman 72 chevelle points distributor(dwell set at 28), Accel coil, MSD super conductor wires, Accel shorty spark plugs gapped at .035, stock 50's chevy ballast resistor inline with the power wire to the coil.
- Fuel stock Mazda RX-7 in tank pump, pumping 45psi?, regulated down to 6psi

-It happens when i free rev it and also under load, If i punch it it goes right to around 4200-4500 and if i hold the throttle down the rpms start to go down to about 2500? i can rev it slowly 2000-3000-4000rpms and sounds smooth till a little after 4000rpms it starts to break up.

-Timing is set at 12 degrees at idle and i rev it up and i get i think around 34 degrees, connect my vacuum advance and it doesn't increase nothing at idle but i rev it up and it goes way up, not sure where but somewhere around 46(i checked true tdc with a piston stop and i also have a timing tape on my balancer)

-I connected a vacuum gauge to it today and it pulls a steady 15 at idle(didnt do anything else with the vacuum gauge cause im not sure what im looking for? can someone post a link on what im suppose to look for when connecting a vacuum gauge)

-I haven't touched the carb after i installed it since i bought it 3 weeks ago?

-Fuel is at 6psi at idle and when i rev it way up to where is starts to break up it goes down to about 4-5 psi, maybe its not getting enough volume?

-The intake is used and so is the spread to square adapter plate, maybe the surfaces are not true? but wouldn't i see that in the vacuum gauge?

Transmission is a 2004r with a TCI 10" 2500 stall torque converter, B&M shift kit, started acting up once i connected the lock up vacuum switch(the tranny that is not the engine). Could the torque converter be bad in-turn make my engine not wanna rev lol? just a guess..

If there's anything i missed in my set up just ask, its 2:30am i probably am missing something.

Thanks in advance.

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Old 10-24-2011, 04:05 AM
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More than likely the fault lies in the ignition. The best place for points is the trash. If a HEI won`t fit then get a conversion kit for the current distributor. There`s several things wrong with your combo.
First off, you don`t need a adapter, the Performer accepts square and spread bore carbs, while the flange is spread bore, all you need to use it without the adapter is a gasket, then a thin metal plate then another gasket.
The metal plate covers both sides on the intake flange so there`s no
vacuum leaks. open adapters belong with points in the trash. They disrupt the vacuum signal and cause flow distribution problems.
Next is while 12 degrees advance is correct, the vacuum advance needs to be connected to a full time manifold vacuum source or one that pulls vacuum full time including idle. When you connect it the idle should go up then you`ll lower it at the carb then check the spark timing, it should be 20 - 24 degrees at idle. Once you`ve verified it`s correct then you set the idle mixture with a vacuum gauge to it`s highest vacuum reading. The electric fuel pump shouldn`t have a volume issue unless the fuel line is too small.
You`ll also want to perform a spark test. If the spark is blue it`s okay, if it`s yellow it`s weak. In my past experiences anything with accel written on it makes it`s way to the trash. Your using accel coil and plugs which is why I recommend you do a spark test. If the spark is yellow it`s likely the coil isn`t putting enough juice out creating a weak spark which shuts down around 4500. I used to have a HEI with a accel super coil that had this same problem. Lastly the issue could also be points bounce as the conditions known which is just another reason I recommend getting rid of them.
Rev limit can be effected by several things, lack of spark, lack of fuel, or valve train problems such as springs too weak for the cam in use.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:43 AM
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I also agree ditch the points and go with h.e.i and also agree with the vacuum issues! One disagreement is if your pulling down your fuel supply at higher r.p.m.'s dont be afraid of playing around with you pressure regulator! its not an exact science. With my identical carbs both the edelbrock 1405 and 1406 i run 7.5 psi.
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:00 AM
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Try Looking at---

Back in the day(hahahahaha) points would not build enough energy to ignite under increased compression and fuel delivery, that is, you spark is to weak for such a heavy load, a simple test, take it out on road, find good steep hill or can use brakes, with engine just below the rpm where it starts to cut out, apply a load, that is increase the load on engine, as the engine bogs done it will not be able to burn all the fuel under increased compression and slower speed, the cheap cure, go find a factory HEI at a parts-u-pull it junk yard, points are only good for around 25-30k volts, where a stock HEI comes in at 50k+, and it does not lose powers at increased rpm, and the dwell does not jump around!!!

Those flat top four value piston tops, are either flat tops w/four valve or dish w/four valve, the flat tops w/stock cc'ed chambers will bring you in around 9:0-1, the dish will be around 8-8:5-1 compression, either way it is a toy, so burn good fuel.

A vacuum gauge, what a lovely simple tool that tells all secrets...IF you know use and understand some basic physics. Now people will argue with me about this until blue in the face, do your home work, you'll see I'm right. A "naturally aspirated" engine (yes-engines use fuel, motors use electricity) does not "suck" the mixture into the engine, the mixture is blown into the engine when the intake valve is opened, a "super charged" (i.e: roots blower/turbo/centrifugal [paxton]charger....) engine is under pressure, "ambient" or "atmospheric" pressure at sea level is 29.92psi, when say your engine "pulls" 15 psi at idle, what it is really doing is allowing 15psi of that 29.92psi to pass the throttle plates and intake valve into the engine, when you open the throttle it allows more to enter and hence why it increases once the engine has leveled out in rpm, until that time is will drop (Venture law at work here, same a carb), a high idle vacuum indicates a good tight engine that is sealing well (rings, value guides, gaskets,throttle plates,....) ideally, tune the engine to drop vacuum value to "0" when you "snap" the throttle, if you have plugs in the intake at each port, we use to place a gauge in each port to measure the pressure to each cylinder, that way could go in and remeasure the intake runner volume, and balance the engine out, is way to much to write all here, but there is a host of ways to tune and use with the vacuum gauge, as a quickie: put a gauge at ports, one above throttle plates, other below, screw throttle stop so no more than say 3000 rpm, when floored, now watch your gauges, at idles, then part throttle and full, then snap the throttle to the stop, watch the pressures, dependent on your location (above sea level) you want as low vacuum below the throttle plates (close to "0") and should be close to 29+psi above them, when you tune you want the below to go as close to 29-psi (yes that is negative pressure, get gauges that have 0, then +/- values on each side), which indicates you getting max atmospheric pressure into the cylinders, don't let any one fool you on this, an engine is nothing more then a very inefficient air compressor, the more efficiently you get it in/burn and get it out the more power they make. later....
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB7
Hey i finally got my engine running good, it starts excellent, idles strong but wont rev past 4500 rpm? here's my set up

- Block 350 bored .030 over with some kind of 4 valve relief pistons?
- Heads are 882's that have z28 springs, stock 1.5 rockers
- Cam is a howards cam 220in/230ex .050 470in/470ex lift installed straight up
- Intake edelbrock performer, spread to square 1inch adapter, 4160c Holley 600cfm electric choke, 14x3 K&N filter.
- Exhaust Hedman shorty headers, duel 2.5 inch piping with an H pipe and some magnaflow mufflers
- Ignition reman 72 chevelle points distributor(dwell set at 28), Accel coil, MSD super conductor wires, Accel shorty spark plugs gapped at .035, stock 50's chevy ballast resistor inline with the power wire to the coil.
- Fuel stock Mazda RX-7 in tank pump, pumping 45psi?, regulated down to 6psi

-It happens when i free rev it and also under load, If i punch it it goes right to around 4200-4500 and if i hold the throttle down the rpms start to go down to about 2500? i can rev it slowly 2000-3000-4000rpms and sounds smooth till a little after 4000rpms it starts to break up.

-Timing is set at 12 degrees at idle and i rev it up and i get i think around 34 degrees, connect my vacuum advance and it doesn't increase nothing at idle but i rev it up and it goes way up, not sure where but somewhere around 46(i checked true tdc with a piston stop and i also have a timing tape on my balancer)

-I connected a vacuum gauge to it today and it pulls a steady 15 at idle(didnt do anything else with the vacuum gauge cause im not sure what im looking for? can someone post a link on what im suppose to look for when connecting a vacuum gauge)

-I haven't touched the carb after i installed it since i bought it 3 weeks ago?

-Fuel is at 6psi at idle and when i rev it way up to where is starts to break up it goes down to about 4-5 psi, maybe its not getting enough volume?

-The intake is used and so is the spread to square adapter plate, maybe the surfaces are not true? but wouldn't i see that in the vacuum gauge?

Transmission is a 2004r with a TCI 10" 2500 stall torque converter, B&M shift kit, started acting up once i connected the lock up vacuum switch(the tranny that is not the engine). Could the torque converter be bad in-turn make my engine not wanna rev lol? just a guess..

If there's anything i missed in my set up just ask, its 2:30am i probably am missing something.

Thanks in advance.
Be sure the coil actually requires a ballast resistor. If you check the resistance across the two primary terminals of the coil (+ and -) it should be around 1-1.5Ω if it needs a ballast. A coil for use w/o a ballast will read about twice that.

Be sure the coil is wired correctly- the "-" side of the coil goes to the distributor.

I'm getting from your post that you've actually verified the mechanical advance is working?

If you have a tach hooked up, try removing the wire for it from the coil, just to eliminate it from being a problem. If no change, hook it back up.

Points can work fine but they require constant attention. If you still use points, clean the contacts w/acetone or lacquer thinner before installing them for the first time to remove the waxy protective coating. Be sure to use the lube supplied w/the points- on the correct side of the rubbing block. If you have another condenser, replace the one in there now, and check the dwell and resistance of the points. Be sure the points plate is grounded. Be sure the plugs are clean and unfouled.

A better solution is to use an HEI or you could use a points replacement module like the Pertronix #1181 under the cap of your reman distributor. There are other Pertronix kits like the #1181LS which is easier to install- it doesn't require the distributor to be disassembled for shimming like the #1181 kit requires you to do. The 1181LS does NOT use a ballast, BTW. But all of this is covered in the info from Pertronix.

HERE is a vacuum gauge guide.

THIS is another one.

Good luck!

Last edited by cobalt327; 10-24-2011 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:28 AM
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Might be a stupid question......you got catalytic converters on this car? I didnt read what kind of car it was.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:06 PM
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I did have a very similar problem,I changed from a mallory dualpoint to a unilite system,the motor then revved a lot more and instantly,and drastically improved the starting as well,as mentioned above points need constant attention
Dave
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:31 PM
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If i was a betting man i would say the Ignition, i had this problem in the past changed to a MSD Pro Billit set-up fix the problem. Could also be the carb, JMO



Cole
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:35 PM
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Or a combo of both Ignition and carb. JMO




Cole
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:32 PM
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Since op said "stock 50's chevy ballast resistor inline with the power wire to the coil"

I would check the power wire to the coil, some use a resistance wire, which in series with the ballast would reduce current by about 50%. Enough to work, but not work well?

Check for 12V on the power wire at the point it connects to the ballast. If less than 12V you have a resistance wire. Depending on the current rating of the primary on your coil, you may not need the ballast.

BTW, most cars that use the resistance wire include a full 12V feed for starting.

Follow the good advice already offered, good luck.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:54 PM
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first off thanks alot for all the quick responses, i didn't get home till 7pm from work so i didn't work on my car much. But i did a spark quality test and it seems im getting good spark, kind of looks purple-ish lol? defiantly not yellow. Then i upped my fuel pressure to 7-8 psi but didn't have enough time to take it for a rip so im not sure if that helped.

- Im guessing its my points bouncing/floating at higher rpms, cause i had this exact same problem before when i first had it running(before i set my dwell), but it wouldn't rev past 1500(dwell showed 7 ???). or maybe its my dwell? i have it set at 27.8 - 28? haven't tried to adjust it higher to see if fixes my problem.

- Another thing i looked at was my spark plugs, the porcelain was pure white, not burnt at all, and the ground strap has this white soot all the way up it till just about where the electrode would be then it was bare metal? Mind you i only have about 100km's on them? not enough timing?

- I checked the coil when i bought it and it showed 1.5ohms, so i installed this resistor that showed 2ohms, but it didnt seem to drop my voltage going to my coil? i also have a wire going from my starter "I" terminal to the "+" side of my coil so it gets 12v's while cranking.I also did try taking the tach wire off the "-" side of the coil to no change.(i would love to put a HEI in it and be done with it but i swapped this engine into my 88 mazda rx7 which has very little room even for the points style small cap distributor )(also this means i wired everything new in the engine bay which i might of wired something up wrong, first time wiring something up to this extent. So far so good )

- I have full intentions of putting a pertronix electronic conversion in this winter, or would it be wise to just buy a MSD distributor? or would my stock reman distributor perform just as good with a pertronix conversion in it?

- That adapter plate will be coming off this week, i seen that thin metal plate you are talking about at the local performance shop. That 1inch adapter plate i have didn't seem right when i was bolting it down being aluminum and all seemed like it was warped. Also the carb is brand new paid $335 for it, i just havent even started tuning it yet as i have this spark/fuel issue.

- And no, no cats on this car. Just had the car in an exhaust shop this last week getting on the new exhaust ,$930 later!!


- Also just thought of another thing, i feel very dumb for not thinking of it when i first broke in the cam. I didn't re-tighten my intake bolts after the first warm up.... could this be my problem? lol

Again thanks alot for all the feedback, ill keep you guys posted.
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:53 AM
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350 rev pass??

I would still stick with distributor issues and then ck fuel pressure, that is there is not enough flow to keep the float bowls full under that rpm, if..IF, there was some thing up with the value train, then it would be pretty clear, as it would have to be mechanical, I assume the engine just falls on its face and wont pull the load, correct??? that is when it hits the rpm where it wont pass the engine does not sputter, or stumble, like a fuel delivery issue, but more so it just acts like hitting a wall and stops climbing in rpm's, if its a wall, then is in the distributor, remember you can have a good blue spark while the plug is out of the "chamber" (old saying, fire in the hole), once under compression it can drop or even fail due to increased pressure and the grounding effect of the mixture, point is...do not assume cause its blue out of the chamber its blue when running.

As for plugs/distributor...you want them good and clean, no soot, etc...only means the charge is burning good over all, maybe not under load, as rpm increases so does the pressure in cylinders, have seen an engine crank with 120psi, but when running would run up wards of 190-200psi, more then enough to ground out the plugs, take your multimeter, clean up all the terminals for ignition, pull up the factory specs for resistance and ohm every thing out, then do a conductivity test on wires, plugs, dis cap, rotor, points.

It really seems like is in the ignition, might also ck the voltage to the distributor at idle, said put a resistor in line, many cars had a resistor built into the wiring harness, so would receive full voltage when cranking then then drop when in the run position, so you placed a resistor in line? if is one all ready in the wiring harness (some where?) then could be getting full voltage when cranking then half of what the other resistor is passing when running?? possible.

As for the intake gasket, is possible, but consider this...if there was such a large leak in the intake gasket that would work to limit the rpm's to such a low speed, then you would have a massive high speed lean mixture, which would cause pre-ignition, or detonation, would be able to hear that a mile away!! and it would only be on couple cylinders at best, now maybe have a mating surface thats off, again would be able to see or hear the "sucking", if not, then the gap would have to be on the under side which means it would be pulling oil into the intake, again..... Can spray some carb cleaner around the gasket/manifold/head area when running if increases in rpm, then a leak, if not....

You can get "crab" style distributors which have HEI internals w/low profile caps, a now gone to hot rod heaven friend use to stuff SBCs into 240/260Z cars, was a tight fit, but it worked, performance was crazy!!! right up till the car folded like an accordion on him after losing it and hitting a bridge (to lite in rear), as a side bar note, please don't feel afraid to place some weight over the rear wheels to help keep em in contact, 200lbs in the trunk will never be noticed in performance, but will make a world of difference in handling. Best luck keep us noticed, thanks
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:06 AM
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Alright guys found the problem!!!, i started off tonight working on my car with changing out the distributor for this ebay procomp/rpc distributor i had laying around. Well it didn't even send the pulse to my coil to create spark lol garbage it went!, went to put my points distributor back in and i noticed the points has a hole burned right threw them lol BINGO! there's my problem(didn't think nothing of it before as i bought the distributor new about a month ago and it ran excellent up until 4500rpm...).

So i put a set of new points in, fired right up, set the dwell at 28.5 and my timing at 14 degrees, didn't seem to run very good at anything lower(maybe im a tooth off? cause all i did was pull the old distributor out and put this one back in and i couldn't get the rotor to line up. ill have to do the TDC #1 compression stroke thing again with the distributor)

But with that, i took it for a drive, and WOW does it go haha with such a miss matched engine, i love that stall! shifts perfect, revs nice and smooth, took it up to 6000 rpms a couple times haha TONS more power up there!!.

Oh ya i upped the fuel pressure to 7.5psi, maybe that helped to?

Thanks a lot guys, a ton of knowledgeable people on these forums, i love it!
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:08 AM
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A most points sets have a hole in one side of the two contacts. While the image below is a drawing, it does depict the hole in one side.



So I'm thinking the problem was the points- just not because of the hole. More likely the resistance was through the roof and/or the dwell was way off. BTW, after you set the dwell you should check the timing because setting the dwell also effects the timing.
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:07 PM
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Had this happen at 4,000 rpm with a 454 I had converted to carb from FI. I regulated the in tanke pump down to 5 psi. The motor would fall flat on its face. Put a $70 carter fuel pump on there, got rid of the stock in tank pump, and problem was solved.
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