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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:37 PM
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Caddie dave
In a mild engine where the heads are used efficiently,there is no reason for a 383 to make more power than a 350,it will be at a different rpm though

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:42 PM
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I agree with everything that tech says above except the gear ratio in the diff part.Not all cars are geared for drag racing so I gear a car for the application of the car . I build an engine to have the power I need for its purpose. I know its splitting hairs,Its just that a cam may not be too big for the gears if the car needs tall gears and a big cam for big power.
Generally,or especially for street/strip cars,rear gears and cams need to be compatable
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2012, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Generally,or especially for street/strip cars,rear gears and cams need to be compatable
Thanks Vinnie, I agree 100%.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:50 AM
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Thanks for all the input guys. I have a muncie 4 speed and 373 gears. My thing is is I want higher gears as the 373 are way to low for my street driving. But not to much lower. The thing is Is I dont even know what old vehicles to even look for to get a different rear end at the junk yard. Also I want as many rpms as I can get. Well withought spending to much. As far as money. Im thinking 1500-2000 for the heads, 200-300 for intake, 300-500 for cam, 300-500 carb, 300-500 headers. The plan was to build the bottom end first. I was going with a stock crank that I pulled out of my 1994 chevy truck and was going to upgrade to forged rods and pistons. Then I was asking about the heads and and I was leaning towards thos AFR 195cc heads. With a Thumpr cam. (Comp Cams CL33-600-5 Comp Cams Thumpr Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cams). As far as what carb I am getting I dont know yet. Probably a Holley 750.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 05:18 AM
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Heya, Just wanted to wish you luck. I'm new to this site as well and about to start on my own performance build as soon as I get some feed back on my parts list.

Always remember to read and ask questions. I posted pretty much the same exact thing you did on a completely different forum. Its nice to know I'm not the only one just getting into this.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevroletSS View Post
Thanks for all the input guys. I have a muncie 4 speed and 373 gears. My thing is is I want higher gears as the 373 are way to low for my street driving. But not to much lower. The thing is Is I dont even know what old vehicles to even look for to get a different rear end at the junk yard. Also I want as many rpms as I can get. Well withought spending to much. As far as money. Im thinking 1500-2000 for the heads, 200-300 for intake, 300-500 for cam, 300-500 carb, 300-500 headers. The plan was to build the bottom end first. I was going with a stock crank that I pulled out of my 1994 chevy truck and was going to upgrade to forged rods and pistons. Then I was asking about the heads and and I was leaning towards thos AFR 195cc heads. With a Thumpr cam. (Comp Cams CL33-600-5 Comp Cams Thumpr Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cams). As far as what carb I am getting I dont know yet. Probably a Holley 750.
As long as the tranny doesn't have a close ratio gear set, you can go higher. Otherwise you'll be slipping hell outta the clutch to pull away from a stop. But if you are going to use a high performance cam, I wouldn't go any less than 3.42. Much higher than that and you start running into too large of an rpm drop on the upshifts. This can drop the engine rpm below where the cam is making good power.

The following isn't anything against you personally. I'm just not sold on the thumpr line of cams. They sound the part, and the vacuum is supposed to be better than what a comparable cam (sound-wise) would give you at idle. But the excessive exhaust duration and tight LSA sure invites reversion to occur- and I'm guessing that's where the sound is coming from, in large part.

My problem w/this, is the cam sounding 'bad' is only because of the inefficiencies caused by the cam timing. When you run a big gnarly cam, this cannot be helped. But to do it on purpose- when you don't have to- seems, well... wrong to me.

Anyway, depending on the rpm you plan on running, the stock rods may be OK. Adding ARP bolts will make the stock rods as durable as the stock cast crank IMO. Keep it around 6500 rpm and it'll be fine. But you said you "want as many rpms as I can get" but you want to stick w/the stock crank, and want to run a thumpr cam just seems a bit contradictory to me.

In the same vein, using forged pistons is all well and good, but if they're not needed, often using a good quality tighter fitting cast/hyper piston will be a better match.

If you plan on really leaning on this engine, I would use an aftermarket forged crank, pistons and rods. And I'd use a different cam to take advantage of the 190cc intake ports. But if this isn't going to see 7000 rpm, or a blower/turbo/nitrous you can use less expensive parts w/o sacrificing durability. And the big ports aren't needed, either.

Also if it's a 2-bolt bottom end and you want to turn 7000 plus, you really should consider splayed 4-bolt caps for it. Balancing is a must, as well.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:49 AM
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I appreciate the contructive ciritism. Thats what I want to hear. Thats what helps me learn. I would like to use a cast crank cause I have good one. I have stock rods in good shape to. Might as well use them. The only Thing I need is pistons. So your recomending hyper pistons and i can use the rods and crank as long as i keep my rpms at round 6500. as far as the cam, i dont need the thumpr, i was after the lift mumbers. I dont know alot about LSA and a little about duration. I do want the good sound but I want it to run as good as it sounds. Im not after a lopey idle with no power like alot of people. So hear is an idea of what i want to use:


Crank: Stock cast 350
Rods: stock cast 350
Pistons: KB Performance Pistons 9901HC.030 KB Claimer Series Hypereutectic Pistons
Heads: AFR - Airflow Research 1034 AFR SB-Chevy Street Aluminum Cylinder Heads
Carb: Holley 0-3310S Holley 750 cfm 4-bbl Carburetor with Manual Choke
Intake: Edelbrock 7501 Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap Manifold=
headers: Hooker Headers 2116 Hooker Headers Super Comp Headers=
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:42 AM
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(((( But if you are going to use a high performance cam, I wouldn't go any less than 3.42. Much higher than that and you start running into too large of an rpm drop on the upshifts. This can drop the engine rpm below where the cam is making good power))))
COBALT,lol....!!!


THIS: is not true.
If you have 5.13 gears or 3.36 gears it makes no difference in the RPM drop when shifting up or down.
The felt difference is because of the multiplication factor of the rear gears.
If you shift at 6,000 rpm from first to second and second gear puts you at 4,000 rpm with 5.13s,then if you shift at 6,000,with 3.36 gears,you will be at 4,000 rpm in second gear also.


speeds in gears more a muncie with 2.52 first/1.88 second/1.46 third/1:1 fourth,with 3.36 rear gears
57 first//76 second//98 third//143 fourth (27 inch tall tire)

using 5.13 gears
first gear at 6000 rpm=37,,,second gear=50,,,third gear 64,,,fourth gear= 94

the shorter spread in MPH is due to the rear multiplier not a difference in RPM with gear changes
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevroletSS View Post
I appreciate the contructive ciritism. Thats what I want to hear. Thats what helps me learn. I would like to use a cast crank cause I have good one. I have stock rods in good shape to. Might as well use them. The only Thing I need is pistons. So your recomending hyper pistons and i can use the rods and crank as long as i keep my rpms at round 6500. as far as the cam, i dont need the thumpr, i was after the lift mumbers. I dont know alot about LSA and a little about duration. I do want the good sound but I want it to run as good as it sounds. Im not after a lopey idle with no power like alot of people. So hear is an idea of what i want to use:


Crank: Stock cast 350
Rods: stock cast 350
Pistons: KB Performance Pistons 9901HC.030 KB Claimer Series Hypereutectic Pistons
Heads: AFR - Airflow Research 1034 AFR SB-Chevy Street Aluminum Cylinder Heads
Carb: Holley 0-3310S Holley 750 cfm 4-bbl Carburetor with Manual Choke
Intake: Edelbrock 7501 Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap Manifold=
headers: Hooker Headers 2116 Hooker Headers Super Comp Headers=
Seems like a pretty good match. But the intake ports and headers are pretty big, so using enough cam to take advantage of the heads and header sizes will put the powerband up right against 6500 rpm. You sure you couldn't "get by" w/a bit less intake port volume and primary header diameter? You might be giving up some top end HP but you'd gain everywhere else.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:28 PM
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I may be incorrect but I believe that a 350 and a 383 with the same heads and same cam or even a cam 1 step up on a 383...the 383 should make more torque, at least 30 to 40 lb. ft. It simply has a bigger stroke and should make more torque. The horsepower may be close since the bore is the same and if the cams are the same. A 383 can take a cam 1 step up and have manners of a 350 on the street and I would think 10 to 15 more horsepower as well. Of course you can build a 350 to make more HP and torque than a 383, but with a different parts combo. Thanks for your input as I am always willing to learn.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 07:47 PM
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I think I wanna stay with the 195cc heads. If you are saying that I need a bigger cam than what I chose then thats fine to but I want a cam to match those theads. I did think about going with the chevy bowtie vortecs but I want more performance.

Also Im taking tech inspectors advice and making it a 383. The thing im trying to figure out is what the difference in 6 inch and 5.7 inch rods besides the length. Can you give me an idea of how much it costs to line hone a 350

Last edited by ChevroletSS; 12-17-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:15 PM
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The cam is rated 2000 to 5800 rpm. I really don't know how accurate that is, but assuming it's right the heads are good for more than that. That doesn't necessarily mean you need more cam, just that you could use more cam. I'm really in the dark AFA the Thumpr cams, though. Hopefully someone who's actually used one like yours will have some input.

Edit- I just saw you're going w/a 383 crank and et cetera. My choice in the past has been to use 5.7" rods, but there are guys who swear by the 6" rods. Choice is yours. I hear there's a piston available for a 6" rod that doesn't require a support rail for the oil ring (don't recall who makes it), but even if you have to use a rail it's no biggie other than just one more thing to deal with.

Last edited by cobalt327; 12-17-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:49 PM
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whats the advantage of a 6 in rod
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:09 PM
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I understand you don't know this,but to ask a question on rod length opens up a long standing debate that has gone on for yrs.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:16 PM
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Are you building a 350 or a 383? A 200cc head is kind of large for 350 street motor. The AFR 195 is a good head for a 383 and cost approx $1,400. You said you have a budget of $3K. Spend your money where it counts the most. You could stroke the motor and get a complete balanced rotating assembly for under $1K. However, machine work, carb and intake will eat up the rest of the budget quickly. If cost is a concern, the vortec heads are the "best bang for the buck". Scoggin Dickey Chevrolet in Texas can sell you a set already done with screw in studs and springs good for a cam with .575 lift. Read the articel that AFR didon their SBC 195 Eliminator head vs the 170 vortec head. First it is not a fair comparison as the 195 is substantially larger and should obviously flow better, and it does. But if you look at the chart they provide, the 170 vortec stuck with the 195 until 4K rpm. That means a lot. On the street the little 170 head will kick *** and have lots of power. You are not at 6Krpm on the street. Ask any knowledgeable head porter - you want the most air flow through the smallest intake runner. If 2 heads flow the same air and one is smaller - go for the smaller head. it will give more torque and won't feel sluggish down low. Don't make the mistake of going with huge head 200cc big cam on a 350. It will only make power high in the rpm range and won't be fun to drive on the street. Fort the low cost $, the vortec heads are a good deal and you can have a very streetable motor, reasonable mileage, and great power. Good luck
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