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Old 09-15-2013, 11:33 AM
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SBC Headers

Hey guys. I am considering building a set of full length headers. The reason I will have to build them and not just buy a set is because of space. The motor has shortys with 1.5" primary's now. The motor is in a celica street strip car. I have 2 questions really 1. Do you guys feel that this will be worth the trouble? 2. What size primary's should I go with?, what length, collector size etc?

SBC 355
10:1
Edelbrock E street heads (cleaned up)
Comp XE274 solid roller
RPM air gap
650 double pumper (might go 750)

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Old 09-15-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostcelica View Post
Hey guys. I am considering building a set of full length headers. The reason I will have to build them and not just buy a set is because of space.
BBBZZZZZZTTT, wrong answer. Never, ever, let any component of the vehicle get in the way of constructing a good set of equal-length, long-tube headers. Frame in the way? Make a notch or build a "U" in the frame for the pipe(s) to go through. Steering in the way? Wrap around it. Inner fender panels in the way? Sling 'em over the fence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prostcelica View Post
The motor has shortys with 1.5" primary's now.
I'm very sorry to hear that. You have my condolences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prostcelica View Post
The motor is in a celica street strip car. I have 2 questions really 1. Do you guys feel that this will be worth the trouble? 2. What size primary's should I go with?, what length, collector size etc?
SBC 355
10:1
Edelbrock E street heads (cleaned up)
Comp XE274 solid roller
RPM air gap
650 double pumper (might go 750)
1. Yes. Read through this website, then talk with them on the phone before you pull the trigger.
Save 20% by buying Header Kits.* Kits available for over 100 engines and cylinder heads.

2. Minimum 3/8" thick header flange, 1/2" would be better in my opinion, 1 5/8" primaries X roughly 30" in length. 2 1/2" collector diameter. Make the collector 12" long to begin with. Using white spray paint, paint the collectors. Mount the headers on the car without the remainder of the exhaust system attached. Make a few full-power passes. The white paint will be burned on the front part of the collector. Where the burning stops is where you want to cut the collector and attach the step-down for the exhaust pipe(s). Fabricate either an H pipe or an X pipe before the mufflers. Run both pipes out to the rear bumper. Terminating the pipes under the car is "Ricky Racer".

3. E-Street heads will not support roller cam springs. Here's the disclaimer on the Edelbrock website.....
"Technical Notes: Use with Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts .550" max lift. (NOT Compatible with Hydraulic Roller Camshafts) Recommended spark plugs are Champion RC12YC or equivalent 14mm x 3/4" reach with flat gasket seat. Requires hardened pushrods. Not legal for sale or use on pollution controlled motor vehicles."

4. Standard 7101 RPM is fine. Air Gap is a bunch of crap in my opinion. Just another way to wow you into buying new parts.

5. You do not need an XE cam in a street runner. Ease up on the ramps with a smoother grind. Once you have some experience, you'll appreciate the longevity of a milder grind as compared to the fosdick 10 hp you gain with an XE grind at the expense of fraggin' components.

Last edited by techinspector1; 09-15-2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:43 PM
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Ok. Thanks for the advice on the headers tech. As for the heads. The valve train has been replaced with comp springs, retainers, locks, etc. that match the cam
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostcelica View Post
The valve train has been replaced with comp springs, retainers, locks, etc. that match the cam
Be very careful here. There may not be enough meat under the spring seat to support a stronger spring. Talk with the Edelbrock engineers.
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:09 PM
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Thanks for your concern tech. It is much appreciated. I spoke with a tech a Edelbrock before I purchased the heads. He informed me that they are the same castings they use for there RPM heads just with different springs an less CNC work.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:49 PM
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I would use 1 3/4 inch primary tubes and try to get 3 feet of pipe before 3 inch collectors and use red paint to mark the collectors for length
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:05 PM
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Thx Vin I was thinking of stepping up to 1 3/4 but wasn't sure. I don't mind loosing a little down low if it means I can pick up a 10th or 2.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:17 PM
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1 3/4 tubes especially long tubes wont lose any torque at all.What Richard was saying with 1 5/8 and only 30 inch primaries: better low end with high velocity smaller tubes,but short so that the top end does not suffer,and he probably figured how much room your car has.
The 1 3/4 tubes I said are 6 inches longer and that too will give great low/mid range, and you are using a roller cam so dont hold back. Your car is light and I doubt it takes very long to get past idle to the sweet spot 3-6500. use a long collector and cut shorter after burning the paint off
red paint ;just messing with you guys
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:39 AM
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If this is a street/strip deal, go w/the 1-5/8" primaries. Strip only (or mainly) can benefit from the larger tubes (no need for anything bigger than 1-3/4" in any event), but w/no more cam than that, and w/o full-zoot heads, I'd still recommend 1-5/8", plus they're easier to work with. If you're up to it, a set of stepped tube primaries could be a good compromise.

Last edited by cobalt327; 09-16-2013 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:02 AM
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In terms of building headers,a Tig weld would be sweet,Gas Mig ant bad,Flex core Mig getting worst,stick weld,stick with your shorties and don't build headers at all.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:44 AM
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If you are using a typical street rod center dump shorty header now you might want to
look at using a common 63 to 80 corvette SBC header and modifying it as required.
Or maybe a header for a RX7 V8 swap, may be close and only need a bit of custom re-fabrication.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:51 AM
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You also have the option of using shorty headers and fooling the engine into thinking it has a long tube header by
building a 2 in to 1 big exhaust pipe with a Y collector/Scavenger.
Burns Stainless (collector parts)
Flowmaster Y250350 Y collector 2.50" in to 3.50"
Just another way to skin the cat when you don't got a lot of room.

What is the performance of the car now? are you putting the power you got now, to the ground?
Or spinning the tires?

What is the performance gain you are looking for with new headers?

I am not familiar with that chassis so I can't visualize what you are up against.

One thing if you are building your own custom headers/exhaut system is you can take advantage of much better
joint - flange attachment sealing systems than a typical hot rod header has.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-16-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
If you are using a typical street rod center dump shorty header now you might want to
look at using a common 63 to 80 corvette SBC header and modifying it as required.
Or maybe a header for a RX7 V8 swap, may be close and only need a bit of custom re-fabrication.
That's a good idea. Ill check that out.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
You also have the option of using shorty headers and fooling the engine into thinking it has a long tube header by
building a 2 in to 1 big exhaust pipe with a Y collector/Scavenger.
Burns Stainless (collector parts)
Flowmaster Y250350 Y collector 2.50" in to 3.50"
Just another way to skin the cat when you don't got a lot of room.

What is the performance of the car now? are you putting the power you got now, to the ground?
Or spinning the tires?

What is the performance gain you are looking for with new headers?

I am not familiar with that chassis so I can't visualize what you are up against.

One thing if you are building your own custom headers/exhaut system is you can take advantage of much better
joint - flange attachment sealing systems than a typical hot rod header has.
y

The car goes pretty good know but Ido have a huge traction issue. I will be putting a softer spring in the back ( don't know what's in there know but they are stiff). I also have a geomitry issue in the front. When the front end comes up the tires toe in pretty bad. I've come to figure that the length and plain of the inner tie rod is causing the issue. Plan is to narrow the rack to get the tie rod the same length as the control arm and use a bump steer kit to get it on the same plane. As I quick fix I just limited the travel but am getting zero weight transfer. The car ran a 12.1 / 115 mph with horrible 2.2 60ft.

As far as a performance gain I just want to get as much out of the motor as I can. I just got this thing together and have done nothing to tune or play with it. My plan is long tube headers, 750 carb, AFR gauge and the suspension issues. Any suggestions here would be much appreciated.

I'd like to get into the 10's (I know I'm along way off). Maybe a small shot in the future but not 100% sure if that's a good idea as it is a stick car.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:57 PM
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The cam is WAY too small for 10 sec power. What tires are giving you the lame 2.20 sec 60ft
Tires are critical to initial bite,, no bite no weight transfer. No bite no rear suspension reaction to help plant the tires. Was the car hard to steer @ WOT with the front suspension extended, geometry issue.?

12.1 @115 is a good start. What does this car weight with driver?

Long tube headers make torque but its not used without good traction.

The link that Tech Inspector posted looks like a good place to buy header kits and parts etc..

if your future plan is to get this car in the 10's I would custom build a proper 1-3/4" race header with proper 4 into 1 merge collectors for sure. You'll only have to do it once.

You went way to mild on the motor if that is the goal.
Cam intake carb headers and heads too. You will end up replaceing all of these for enough horsepower to run a 10 sec et.

You will need about a 124 to 126 MPH That will require 100 horsepower more.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-16-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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