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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2013, 06:31 AM
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Did we go over the procedure to remove/shim the valve springs on an assembled engine? You will need compressed air or thin rope or cord to put down the cylinder through the spark plug hole to keep the valves in place.

I was looking at the photos, what's the deal w/the bolt(?) in the lifter valley of the Pontiac engine?

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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2013, 07:05 AM
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That was my 77 trans am I never got to even drive.

It had set in a barn for over 20 some years and was a one owner.
I got it for 500 and solid it for a 1000$ and all i did is unload it from a trailer.


Yes sir we went over valve shim installment with heads on engine. My main worry right now is these springs. 63$ for more springs is alote to me right now but its cheaper then having to do the whole engine over again. Two different shops say they should be fine but one of the two didnt even see the cam - All i did is tell him i had to mk1103 cam from summitracing and he just said those springs should be fine.

Thanks cobalt
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2013, 08:25 PM
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The springs you have are sometimes referred to as "Z28/LT-1" springs and are OK for use w/your cam. Set them to the 1.7" installed height and pay attention to proper camshaft break in procedures and you'll be fine.

Adjusting hydraulic lifters
Cam break in
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2013, 02:25 PM
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Thanks cobalt. Iv been reading links for the last few days and feel im almost readdy.

Any advise you give me im fallowing to the T.

I had a friend who races sprint cars tell me to soak the lifters in my breakin oil to stop them from compressing for a bit. He said doing this should allow me time to set the lash for the push rods and rocker arms and allow me to turn the engine over a few time to see if the pushrods are gonna be a issue - can you confirm this???

Your advice has been dead on so far thanks.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
The springs you have are sometimes referred to as "Z28/LT-1" springs and are OK for use w/your cam. Set them to the 1.7" installed height and pay attention to proper camshaft break in procedures and you'll be fine.

Adjusting hydraulic lifters
Cam break in
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
Thanks cobalt. Iv been reading links for the last few days and feel im almost readdy.

Any advise you give me im fallowing to the T.

I had a friend who races sprint cars tell me to soak the lifters in my breakin oil to stop them from compressing for a bit. He said doing this should allow me time to set the lash for the push rods and rocker arms and allow me to turn the engine over a few time to see if the pushrods are gonna be a issue - can you confirm this???

Your advice has been dead on so far thanks.


what about a checking spring in this method?
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2013, 08:23 PM
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I use a lighter checking spring. I've found this to work well. If the lifter is filled w/oil the checking spring will work OK- but after the lifter sits w/any pressure on it, it will begin to "bleed down", even w/a light spring if the lifter is up on the cam lobe and not on the base circle of the cam. This is why we use a solid lifter when checking valve train geometry.

There has been much said about pumping up hydraulic lifters prior to start up. You can read up on this for yourself: Pump them up?. The gist of it is that it isn't necessary to pump up a hydraulic lifter, and some cam companies explicitly caution against it. But if you pack a lifter w/grease or small washers there's no need to pump up the lifters anyway.

There's nothing wrong w/submerging the lifters in a can of motor oil, but that's different than pumping them full of oil using a pushrod or dowel to pump the plungers. But there's also nothing that submerging the lifters in a can of oil will actually help. Before initial start up all that you need to do is lube the outside body of the lifter w/motor oil and use moly break in lube on the cam lobes and bottoms of the lifters. Also this is a different step than setting up the pushrod length. Lubing the outside w/motor oil and putting break in grease on the bottoms is done just prior to first start up. At the point where the lifter is lubed and finally put into the block and the valves adjusted, the geometry (finding the correct length pushrod) has already been done.

If any of this isn't clear, just ask again.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2013, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
The springs you have are sometimes referred to as "Z28/LT-1" springs and are OK for use w/your cam. Set them to the 1.7" installed height and pay attention to proper camshaft break in procedures and you'll be fine.

Adjusting hydraulic lifters
Cam break in
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I use a lighter checking spring. I've found this to work well. If the lifter is filled w/oil the checking spring will work OK- but after the lifter sits w/any pressure on it, it will begin to "bleed down", even w/a light spring if the lifter is up on the cam lobe and not on the base circle of the cam. This is why we use a solid lifter when checking valve train geometry.

There has been much said about pumping up hydraulic lifters prior to start up. You can read up on this for yourself: Pump them up?. The gist of it is that it isn't necessary to pump up a hydraulic lifter, and some cam companies explicitly caution against it. But if you pack a lifter w/grease or small washers there's no need to pump up the lifters anyway.

There's nothing wrong w/submerging the lifters in a can of motor oil, but that's different than pumping them full of oil using a pushrod or dowel to pump the plungers. But there's also nothing that submerging the lifters in a can of oil will actually help. Before initial start up all that you need to do is lube the outside body of the lifter w/motor oil and use moly break in lube on the cam lobes and bottoms of the lifters. Also this is a different step than setting up the pushrod length. Lubing the outside w/motor oil and putting break in grease on the bottoms is done just prior to first start up. At the point where the lifter is lubed and finally put into the block and the valves adjusted, the geometry (finding the correct length pushrod) has already been done.

If any of this isn't clear, just ask again.
Thanks cobalt. I would be more then happy to use a solid lifter but i cant seem to find one??? Do you think u could find me one on summit I cant seem to find one. (I did find checking springs)

Do I need to check the geometry on each cylinder or do just cylinder 1 exhaust and intake? The videos iv been seeing on this seen to give the impression of only one cylinder (Exhaust and intake) needing to be checked.

Thanks again...
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:11 PM
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NEVER MIND on finding a solid lifter on summit I found one. Now if i must check every cylinder can I do them one at a time?

Do I have to do every cylinder?
One head is brand new (not even a hours worth of idle time)?
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 04:32 AM
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Maybe check #1 and #2 to make sure you're going about it correctly.
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
NEVER MIND on finding a solid lifter on summit I found one. Now if i must check every cylinder can I do them one at a time?

Do I have to do every cylinder?
One head is brand new (not even a hours worth of idle time)?
The valve spring installed height has to be checked on each valve. The pushrod length (geometry) can be checked on a cylinder from each side of the engine just to be sure.

If you use a solid lifter, just be sure the distance from the bottom of the lifter (where the lifter contacts the cam lobe) to the lifter seat where the pushrod sits is the same distance.
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:16 PM
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What you can do w/o any special tools is mock up the valvetrain using stock length p-rods (used ones are OK for this as long as they're straight- rolling them across a piece of plate glass will tell you if they're straight. Bent p-rods will give a *tick* every time you get to the bend). If the witness mark of the rocker arm tip on the valve tip is towards the intake, the p-rod is too short; towards the exhaust, too long.

BUT- the idea isn't necessarily to get the pattern dead in the middle, rather it's better to have a narrow swept area and as long as there's no chance of the rocker riding off the tip of the valve, you're basically OK.

Im going to try and shim the valve springs tomorrow. I will also be trying this ASAP. So ill basically adjust the rockers like normal then rotate the engine and look for any chance of the rocker slipping off the valve???

Iv got new rocker arms on the way. Just as soon as they get here im going to recheck everything and lube everything up again and will start dropping the engine in.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
Im going to try and shim the valve springs tomorrow. I will also be trying this ASAP. So ill basically adjust the rockers like normal then rotate the engine and look for any chance of the rocker slipping off the valve???

Iv got new rocker arms on the way. Just as soon as they get here im going to recheck everything and lube everything up again and will start dropping the engine in.
I would suggest you shim the springs to get the correct installed height, then wait until you get the rockers that you're gonna use. THEN check the geometry.
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 12:45 AM
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I would suggest you shim the springs to get the correct installed height, then wait until you get the rockers that you're gonna use. THEN check the geometry.
Update. Sorry I havent been posting guys. Iv been busy.

Today i was checking valve spring installed height and found most of bank (2) to be already at 1.700- the highest iv seen is 1.715. with current valve shims.
cylinder 6 intake - 1.642 (If i remove the valve shim it drops to 1.702. So my question is can I run the engine with a valve shim missing???

Guys Im gonna get some sleep. God bless.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 09:55 PM
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Hello? Wear did everyone go?
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2013, 03:52 AM
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I'm still here, but I haven't played with valve springs much so use what I say with caution.

Are your heads aluminum or cast iron? If they were cast iron and the spring fit into a pocket which held it in place, I see no reason you couldn't remove the cup. If not, your spring pocket needs machining. Aluminum heads need a valve spring cup for sure.

Hopefully, Cobalt will chime in.
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