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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
Hey guys. have not moved forward much but I have a new question.
When I started this I installed a new high volume/high pressure oil pump. It only ran maybe 30 mins(If that) with the cam going bad. Since the engine had fresh oil - changed twice am i ok to reuse? I was told to wash it out with carb cleaner and then soak in oil. is this ok.

Next on the list.
I have a friend who gave me a http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3507x
He said it was just laying around and to go ahead and use it. he also gave me a pick up tube for it.
Now i know i dont need it - even with the high volume oil pump but can i use it with out worries ????
Will I steal fill the oil leave to full on the dip stick???? (Dont see why I wouldn but wanna make sure)

Did you take the pump apart to clean it out? It looks simple. I'm pretty sure I cleaned out a stock pump before.

I see nothing wrong with the pan. You can't go wrong with more oil. Of course, if you're trying to eek out every last 1/2 HP, you would use a windage tray but not really necessary for a street car.

Dipstick tube is stopped at the top so the level will always be correct.
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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 05:01 AM
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There were good points made by all, concerning the HV pump/pan issue. I believe that it's more a difference in philosophy than right vs. wrong- some guys insist on a "plug and play" resolution to a problem (no mods/tweaks), others like myself have come to realize that sometimes mods/tweaks ARE needed, and doing so doesn't necessarily mean the job isn't being done correctly.

Oil pump:
I would reuse it as long as the gears aren't chewed up. I would disassemble it to clean and inspect. Retorque the fasteners to 80 in/lb if they're 1/4-20 threads. Use oil on the threads.

If you're willing, you can check and 'blueprint' the pump clearance between the gears and cover. There are several tutorials for this on the net, so I'll not go into detail here. Smoothing the relief valve bore can help prevent the valve from hanging up, and this is easily done. There are other DIY mods as well: drilling the gears, grooving the cover, etc. I'll leave that up to your discretion as to whether you think it's worth it, but I would tend to shy away from them in this application. Below is a Moroso pump showing some of these mods. If you have the tools (die grinder or at least a dremel) you can smooth and gently chamfer the pump outlet to match the rear main cap. The main cap itself can be smoothed/cleaned up. Again, the net will show details on this commonly-done mod.

Pan:
The pan you linked to is about the same depth as a stock pan, IIRC. It is basically an oval track pan. Should you decide to use it, be sure it'll clear the chassis and that the supplied pick up is correct for it. It prollably isn't going to be a problem, but consider the oil movement towards or away from the pick up in a street application- will it tend to uncover during braking/acceleration/right hand turns?

I'd run the oil level fairly close to the full mark on the dip stick; not more than a quart less than the rated capacity in this case, else there's no reason to run it in the first place. Adding oil capacity will mean the engine will take marginally longer to reach operating temp, the oil change interval will be slightly extended and you might be able to reduce windage losses, providing the full oil level is lower than stock. Whether that equates to enough benefits to use it is up to you.

Be aware the dip stick won't read the same; a quart low on the stick will be more than a quart, so you'll want to remark the stick.

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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 06:15 PM
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Hey guys.
Iv started slowly assembling the engine.
Iv got the spring height 0.020 with in 1.700.

Will this oil work for breaking or do i need to get something different. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-02006

It has high levels of zinc.

Can anyone think of anything else i might need to check?

Iv been reading alote of forums wear ppl are having issues with flat tapered cams going flat - what is the deal with this??? Im almost temped to yank my cam out and installed a roller- If my cam go flat im back to squad one and gotta have it vatted again. Any info on this.

Thanks for the above info guys.
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 08:54 PM
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If the cam is given a fair chance it'll break in OK. Follow the guidelines in the link below.

The lifters must rotate the instant the engine starts up. Cleaning the lifter bores w/acetone or lacquer thinner will remove any residue that may be left behind. Use only motor oil on the sides of the lifters and in the lifter bores- DO NOT use the heavy moly cam break in lube anywhere except on the bottoms of the lifters and on the cam lobes- do not use it on the cam bearing journals.

Most times honing the lifter bores of a used production block is not needed.

I have started using conventional 30W motor oil with ZDDPlus added for break in. You can use a multigrade fossil motor oil w/additive as well, but I prefer straight 30W fossil w/additive.

The oil you linked to would be used at oil change after break in. I believe they also have a break in oil made just for break in, you can check on that. Expensive way to do it compared to regular oil and additive. You use less additive once the engine is broken in.

Broken record department:
Cam break in
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:29 PM
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I was looking at the photo of the oil pump and I didn't see a comment about doing a tack weld with a mig or brazing the pickup screen tube to the body of the pump. The reason I bring this up is because a local engine shop said he finds the pickup screen on chevy engines laying in the oil pan fairly often, yet the engine will get oil on flat ground due to how low the pump is mounted but going down a steep hill and the oil running to the front of the pan can starve it for oil.

The shop said if I braze it, BE SURE to remove the pressure relief valve and spring so they don't get overheated and the spring loose its tension as that would be quite counter productive to the engine getting enough oil pressure.

cobalt327, to pick your brain would you mind giving your thoughts on the need to do this or is it not really necessary for an on road application where the vehicle doesn't take such a vibrating beating as off road use can ?
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Chevy View Post
cobalt327, to pick your brain would you mind giving your thoughts on the need to do this or is it not really necessary for an on road application where the vehicle doesn't take such a vibrating beating as off road use can ?
Like most things in this arena, there are builders who favor doing various things- and if done right, they all work reasonably well.

What I personally do is simply use a new pickup and install it w/a tool w/some 640 loctite. Don't forget to set the depth before installing/welding.

Melling sez:

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  #187 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
If the cam is given a fair chance it'll break in OK. Follow the guidelines in the link below.

The lifters must rotate the instant the engine starts up. Cleaning the lifter bores w/acetone or lacquer thinner will remove any residue that may be left behind. Use only motor oil on the sides of the lifters and in the lifter bores- DO NOT use the heavy moly cam break in lube anywhere except on the bottoms of the lifters and on the cam lobes- do not use it on the cam bearing journals.

Most times honing the lifter bores of a used production block is not needed.

I have started using conventional 30W motor oil with ZDDPlus added for break in. You can use a multigrade fossil motor oil w/additive as well, but I prefer straight 30W fossil w/additive.

The oil you linked to would be used at oil change after break in. I believe they also have a break in oil made just for break in, you can check on that. Expensive way to do it compared to regular oil and additive. You use less additive once the engine is broken in.

Broken record department:
Cam break in
What do you mean (OK) How many miles can u get out of a flat tappet cam?

Thanks for the info cobalt. Iv read that post multi times. Im pretty sure I got that all that good stuff done.... Ill be ordering breakin oil friday.
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:39 AM
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I think my big worry is how many ppl - have tons of exprince doing this and steal have issues. I see people spending big bucks and only getting 20k before its time for a new cam. I only spent 100$ for a summit cam and worry maybe Im doing more harm then good.

This is one reason why I got comp cams roller rocks- Roller should make it easy on the upper end. Surely it will help the cam in some way or the other!!!

Last edited by sweetlil66; 06-21-2013 at 03:47 AM.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:16 PM
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will this work for breakin - even tho its 15-50? I wanna run 10/30 after breakin? Will i be able to run breakin with this and then run 10-30 after wards.
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
I think my big worry is how many ppl - have tons of exprince doing this and steal have issues. I see people spending big bucks and only getting 20k before its time for a new cam.
I'm into roller cams only now. No more flat tappets for me. When I did my swap to roller last summer, I found the lifters flat on the bottom. The cam was on its way out. I used break in additive but was unaware that I needed to keep using it.

Just seems to be too much trouble. I like to "set it and forget it".
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  #191 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
What do you mean (OK)
I mean the cam will break w/o a failure in the large majority of the time if the guidelines are followed to a "T".

Quote:
How many miles can u get out of a flat tappet cam?
I cannot say. I CAN say that you'll be paying for a roller cam in installments- every time you add ZDDPlus or use an oil like Gibbs.
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  #192 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 12:11 AM
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What is a good cheap roller cam/lifter set for my sbc 400? I would like something with a little lope but cheap is always better!!! Thanks guys. Pugsy how many miles/years did you get with that cam?

Agreed cobalt - 10$s for actives + tax adds up but the job gibbs racing oil i posted a link to above wont need additives will it? I plain to use that oil any way -roller or not.
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  #193 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
. Pugsy how many miles/years did you get with that cam?
Not enough. I did discover that even a mild cam will wipe out if you don't use additives on every oil change. At the time I was under the impression that the additives were only required during break in. In my case, it was OK because I was changing the cam anyways.

I like to change my oil without chasing down additives or special oil so roller is the only way to go for me.
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  #194 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:42 AM
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This is a video from comp cams -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re-VqHO3cH8

Should I remove the inner spring from my set of spring and the reinstall after breakin???


Valve springs
7. Failure to use acceptable valve spring pressure for cam break-in.
You can't use 350 lb. over-the-nose springs and expect the cam to live through break-in. Assemble the heads with stock or weak single springs (only if those springs will accept the amount of valve lift and the retainers will clear the valve seals/valve guides) to break in the cam, then use one of the many tools available to change the springs with the heads on the motor. Those without a compressor to hold the valves up for this operation can feed some clothesline cord through the spark plug hole and then bring the piston up to smash the rope and hold the valves up.
Alternatively, assemble the heads with the springs you will run and use reduced-ratio break-in rockers, then change out the rockers after break-in. Although expensive, these are available from Crower in various ratios for different motors. A popular ratio for a small block Chevy would be a 1.3:1 rocker. In other words, let's say the lift at the cam is 0.350" and the theoretical lift at the valve with 1.5:1 rockers is 0.525". Using the 1.3:1 rockers would result in lift at the valve of only 0.455", thus reducing stress at the camshaft/lifter interface during the crucial break in period. Of course, you may have to elongate the pushrod holes to accommodate the longer rocker arm pushrod cup-to-pivot dimension, and/or alter the slots in your guide plates. Be aware that reduced ratio rocker arms will by themselves do nothing to lessen the seat pressure. Things that will change the seat pressure are a different installed height, or a different spring rate. Also be sure to do the math to be sure the reduced ratio rocker arms will reduce the open spring pressure to acceptable levels for break in; don't assume anything.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ips_and_tricks

I see nothing about removing the inner spring on the site cobalt set me up with.... unless thats what they ment by - saying *weak single springs*?

- In all - is this something i gotta do?
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  #195 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:58 AM
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Wait. If im doing my research right. I dont have inner springs - I have dampeners (Flat wound) Correct???

Thanks!
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