sbc inneed of medical attention 911 - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:59 PM
T-bucket23's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Engine basic condition - how to check Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Posts: 5,361
Wiki Edits: 26

Thanks: 9
Thanked 145 Times in 128 Posts
Doing anything to that engine without flushing out all the oil passages is a huge gamble. All the metal that came off the cam is in the oil and is very fine like sand paper. I have never seen an internal crack effect oil pressure.
Your symptoms sound like a typical cam bearing issue.
You could try a cam and bearings but I think it is a gamble.
I have flushed a few blocks in the car by taking out the plug by the oil filter and on other in the system at the front and pumping clean transmission fluid through the oil passages. We had a small pump like a cleaning tank pump tat we could throw in a bucket of transmission fluid or kerosene to flush. We would then use this same method to pump some clean oil through before filling and starting. It is a lot cheaper than a complete tear down but a gamble none the less.

    Advertisement
__________________
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity



Chet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to T-bucket23 For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-16-2013)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2013, 07:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Age: 68
Posts: 831
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 28
Thanked 23 Times in 20 Posts
I don't think there is a guaranteed, safe and sure approach. If there is a ridge and the crank journals are ground smaller, being a bit off-center could drive the rings into the ridge with enough force to crack or break a piston. I think doing what's cheapest, and being willing to accept negative consequences is the wise approach. Follow Bogie's cam replacement suggestion, do a minimum of other work, and if worse comes to worst, buy a goodwrench motor. The goodwrench isn't exciting, but it should get you down the road for100,000 or more miles.

PatM
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to PatM For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-16-2013)
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:34 PM
sweetlil66's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 106
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 197
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I think what Ill do is ....
Get new pistion rings.
Get new cam and bearings.
Have the crank turned with new bearing.
Clean the hil out of everything.
Change the oil every 200 miles or so.

How does that sound?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:29 AM
Silverback's Avatar
Boost Retard
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 379
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
For the most part, I agree with what has been said, the reason that you're getting a pretty decent span of answers is that what you're actually dealing with can be quite different depending on how really worn that engine is and none of us can see what you're seeing.

Where I'm going to disagree is what I think you should do.

I'm sure that you don't want to hear it but the way I see it, based on what you wrote, you basically caused your own problems:
- you got ripped off to start with, the wiring problem and fresh oil thing to cover up something with a cracked head
- you probably wiped out the bearings by firing it without changing the oil with antifreeze in the oil (sounds like when you first fired it it was actually still OK and then it got worse from the mayo you had in the oil pan).

In both cases it sounds like just a lack of experience/knowledge.

Now honestly, sounds like the shop you're dealing with is quoting you _really_ decent prices, like I couldn't get the work done that you listed for 2x that locally, so as far as that goes, if they do even OK work... wow.

Secondly, if you're really tight on money, I hate to say it but you're opening such a can of worms here that I suspect that if you started tearing it down and cleaning it yourself you'll end up costing yourself a ton more money. That's fine if you have time, some money, don't need the truck running and want to learn.

If any of that is not the case then I'd suggest a totally different approach: find a good running take out small block (friend, jy...) or a basic crate engine depending on what $$$ you can come up with. Even a reasonable crate engine will cost you less then you'll end up into this one by the time you clean it up, rebuild it and get it running again.

Another thing to note, unless you're spending real money on it, most people won't be able to tell a 305 from a 400 in a full size truck. Don't overlook the "I bought a project car with a good running 305 that I took out to swap in a 350 you can have it if you want it" deals to get you up and running/having some fun with it. The right intake, long tube headers, mild cam... this thing will be just as fun cruising and from a stop light as a mild (and especially worn out) 400. Same thing with a "stock replacement" 350
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Silverback For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-16-2013)
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2013, 08:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cassville,MO
Posts: 858
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 29
Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts
Buying parts before you take it apart to measure and inspect everything is a sure fire way to end up buying something twice. You have 3 options
1. throw a crank kit and cam kit at it and pray to the deity of your choice.
2. pull them thing out and do it right.
3. as suggested find a running small block to get you around til you can afford option #2
I can't afford #1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to tresi For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-16-2013)
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:08 PM
sweetlil66's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 106
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 197
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
What am I missing Other then vatting.
The shop has already walked me threw sets I can do at home to semi vatt the engine - according to them if I fallow there sets ill be fine.

I know not to buy parts unless I know Im going to use them I just getting a plain if something is bad.
Im not buying nothing for-sure until tare down.

If I was to get a new crank - 185 + 30 for good bearings. or have mine turned with new bearing for 250.
New cam- 125 with new lifters and bearings.
New - Moly Rings Kit - 30$
Iv already got a new oil pump in the box.
My heads are brand new.

The only thing Im missing new are pistons - I ran compression check today and had 145psi on each cylender (DRY) Wet was 150psi.
So all the cylinders have the same compression so I dont see much reason to bore or hone the cylinders.

The only thing I could be missing is the vatting and magnaflx.
Iv checked the block decking and its fine.
Im not dumping water into the crank case like I was with the head.
So the only thing that could be wrong is the block having a cracked oil passage and the race shop and a few other posters have already said its slim to none chances of that happening.


I would understand the push to have the race shop do all the work or getting a new short block if I had spun a cam bearing or such.
The thing runs with out a kock bag or miss and holds oil psi when on the gas (It doesnt twitch or anything like that)



One thing I noticed today is *On my 66 chevy the oil psi gauge has 0 to 6*
When running at temp = the orallys gauge says no oil psi. The one on the dash shows 20ish - when I shut the engine off it goes back to 0 like normal.
When I start up cold the dash says almost 60.

I told the race shop this today and they informed me that the cheap orallys gauges dont always work right and after they get water/antifreeze in them like mine did they dont work right forsure.

Please dont be rude to me.

This truck has been a dream my whole life- dont bring me down more please Im not trying to hall ssa it. Im mean no disrespect to anyone and I hear what each and everyone of yall are saying.

My big issues are I have a kid - one on the way -a wife that hates me - My dad/best friend just died - no job full time but i do make good money for the work.

I know my way around the top side of any engine.
Iv changed oil pumps and rod bearing before.
Iv just never jumped off into the world of cam bearing and stuff like that. Altho I do know the operations.

Thanks guys.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:31 AM
1Gary's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 383 dyno sym
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Roch,NY
Age: 67
Posts: 1,539
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 201
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
No matter if you take my advise or for that matter anyone else's,sometimes it come down to your gut feeling along with what everyone has posted combined or just your gut feeling.

I mean with all the respect I can convey typing,my heart and soul goes out to you when you honestly say this is your dream rod.

I truly hope this whole thing turns around and starts working out for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 1Gary For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-16-2013)
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 01:23 AM
sweetlil66's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 106
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 197
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks gary1.

I wanna take the best path. I dont know if Im missing something or what.
What else could be wrong with the block its self other then a cracked oil port??
I know its not dumping water into the block so there no crack there and the chance of a crack in the oil passage are slim to none.

Im going to reread this whole thread to see if Im missing something thanks....


BTW @ silverback.
No sir I did not get ripped off.
Iv got 200$ cash into the whole truck and thats for the new head with a 15k warrenty.

I trade a 1993 ford f150 5.0 with a e4od trans that had over 300k (I paid 500 for it 5 years ago)
It was a clean truck but it snapped 3 piston rings and was blowing oil allover the place threw the air filter.
Dont get me wrong it was a damn good truck - I drove it to Fargo ND once and then back with snapped rings. I went threw 6 GALLONs OF OIL and there was a lack of power but she did it.... I pretty much pushed her right up to the end and she wouldn give. (They say its not the god in the fight its the fight in the dog and this thing fought) I was realy sad to see it go but something about the 66 made me fall in love. Maybe it was because my dad once own it - i dont know. in the end I dont fell I got hurt.

Here are some photos of the truck.
imagejpeg_5_zps611d1ef2.jpg Photo by Bluemule93 | Photobucket

You can also see photos of the 77 trans am 6.6 - It was a dream of mine i had to let go. There was only 248 made in this style in 77.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:12 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 407
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 92
Thanked 78 Times in 73 Posts
I've been following this for a bit.

Sounds like your oil pressure is fine and your gauge is a dud, unless I misunderstood you. You need to verify this, and it can be done quite easily. If the engine is apart, then use an air pressure regulator and verify the accuracy of your gauge with shop air applying it at the line that attaches to the block. If the engine is together, then install a new gauge at the port on the block.

Now, if your oil pressure gauge is the problem, then most likely your pump and bearings are fine, or at least worth inspecting for reuse.

If you deem the bearings reusable and oil pressure in spec, then I believe your repair options have changed. I think you should either do the minimum possible and save money for when you are ready to do it right, or do it right to begin with. As you well know, doing it right is alot of money.

Turning the crank, installing new bearings, cam, oil pump, piston rings along with using your current good heads without boring the cylinders is like, umm, physics without calculus or marriage without sex.....what's the point.

I've been in the same spot your in with customer's engines and my advice is always the same - put a bandaid on it by repairing only what is bad or do it completely so that you know exactly what you have.

Good luck and nice truck - noticed in the picture the very original looking, leaking, single line master cylinder - BE careful with that, especially if your kids/family will be riding with you.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 64nailhead For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-17-2013)
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:01 AM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: New ride3
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: tx
Posts: 92
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Most of these guys are steering u in the right direction. I kinda went throuh this with my Gen 6 454 build. Had tons of water in the oil. Only 6k miles since rebuild. It took me 4 days to figure out the intake had been rotted away. Long story short. It washed all the bearings..

So I went the best, cheapest route I could, which I suggest for you.

Had block
cleaned,
checked,
honed - u must hone it to get the new rings to seal correctly,
decked to zero- (u probably dont need this),
new cam bearings installed,
brass freeze plugs,
Pistons and rods cleaned- (coulda done it myself),
Crank was going to be polished but ended up needing turned- (u might be able to polish yours),
They supplied me new rod and crank bearings as well..
$498 out the door of the machine shop..

Rings cost me $40 and I bought a roller cam for $200. Not bad since I paid $75 for the engine..

I also think $200 to clean a block and check it is extremely high to me. If he quoted u that I would be looking else where for my work to be done. I went ahead and did all this. Well cause I dont wanna do it again for a long time. Less worries as well. I have tried doing it the cheap route just replacing stuff. Trying to get an engine going. But its worth the time and cash to do it right and have an engine capable of 150k + miles before needing reworked again...

As far as your going in it might as well..

Just have the other head rebuilt as well, get u a descent ft cam and use the right break in additive. I am sure u could get out for less then $1000.. Then u know exactly what ya got and not just buying a little more time.

Sign at the shop says "How fast u wanna go? Well, how much money do u Have?" Same is about True for how reliable u want it.

Yeah those cheap oil psi guages arent worth a dam... Autometer or trusted brand is best...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to dually502 For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-17-2013)
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 11:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,764
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 66 Times in 64 Posts
If you get up into the $1000 price range for all the work and parts I think its time to look at crate engines. The GM Goodwrench 350 goes for about $1400 and it has a 3 year/50k mile warranty. Although some folks still have doubts about these engines because they are made in Mexico, I have been using one in my truck for the last 7 or 8 years and it has been completely reliable.

Swapping in a crate engine also has time advantages, if that is important to you. You could pull the old engine and swap all the accessories over on a Saturday, and have the new one back in the truck on Sunday. It is a relatively simple job if you have a cherry picker to pull out the engine.

Bruce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 75gmck25 For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-17-2013)
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 11:37 AM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: New ride3
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: tx
Posts: 92
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I would spend the cash to rebuild the 400 before I spent more cash on a less powerful 350. 400 has alot more tq output then a 350.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to dually502 For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-17-2013)
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:43 PM
thinwhiteduke's Avatar
Living In The Past
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Downunder
Age: 55
Posts: 428
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 36
Thanked 36 Times in 32 Posts
I've just read this tread from start to finish and thought I'd toss in my 2 cents.

Your saying....(quotes).

"Im not dumping antifreeze into the oil no more."

"Theres no misfiring."

"There is no smoking or banging or odd noises."

"The pistons looked almost new."

"I ran compression check today and had 145psi on each cylender (DRY) Wet was 150psi."

"Iv checked the block decking and its fine."

"Im not dumping water into the crank case like I was with the head."

"The thing runs with out a kock bag or miss and holds oil psi when on the gas (It doesnt twitch or anything like that)"

"money is so tight right now.... "



Go back and read Bogies post again, I reckon he's right on the money with this one..

BTW, if your running an auto with stock torque converter and end up using that summit cam, please let's know how it goes, or if it needs a bigger stall converter. I'm curious because that's the same cam I plan on putting in my truck.

Good luck!



Duke
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to thinwhiteduke For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-17-2013)
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2013, 02:53 PM
sweetlil66's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 106
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 197
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ill let you know thinwhiteduke.

Thanks again guys.

Im waiting on my stand to get here and ill let yall know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2013, 04:54 PM
496CHEVY3100's Avatar
Appalachian American
 

Last journal entry: ,
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Appalachia GA
Posts: 880
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 513
Thanked 338 Times in 297 Posts
Check oilpressure with a known working guage ,borrow one from a buddie to check against yours ,i think youre fine no need to waste money at this time .also you did drill steam holes in heads if they were 350 or replacement heads .The 400 has addiitional holes drilled to prevent hot spots and cause overheating , cracking especially at low speeds, Good luck with your build this is a 434 built from a 400.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	026.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	199.7 KB
ID:	72349  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 496CHEVY3100 For This Useful Post:
sweetlil66 (03-17-2013)

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
medical nos BLZR81 Engine 4 01-23-2010 07:32 AM
Medical Oxygen Regulators ? kdc49 Garage - Tools 21 04-04-2006 10:52 PM
What are your medical conditions? lluciano77 Hotrodders' Lounge 62 12-01-2004 12:03 PM
medical question 40fordtruck_son Hotrodders' Lounge 28 10-17-2004 02:18 PM
New Medical Breakthrough Kevin45 Hotrodders' Lounge 8 06-23-2004 11:09 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.