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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:09 AM
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Just cause I use a different oil doesn't mean it's wrong brother. Doesn't matter if you use oil with zinc already in it or if you put a zinc additive in regular oil. It will do the same thing. I'll stick with my house brand oil and $2 additive, saves me a good amount of money over buying special race oil.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:13 PM
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Man.I can never figure out after spending all the good cash to build a engine at the 11th hour decide to cheap out and not be 100% sure not to put all the investment at risk.

It's like a Super Gas 440 Mopar owner I know that has a high volume/high pressure oil pump in his engine and then bought a K-Mart oil filter for it.It blew up the filter at the top end oiling down the entire shut down area and slicks putting him,the car,and the engine at risk for a serious crash.Just is totally illogical.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:52 PM
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Using regular oil and an additive is not cheaping out Why would i buy $10 a quart oil for a daily driven car when i can pay $3.99? That's 50 for the racing oil vs $22 for the normal oil and additive, and it does the same thing. I can promise you that you will have no problems with an additive and regular oil.
A lot of guys run an additive. To say that you have to get oil with zinc but can't put zinc into regular oil is ridiculous.
It's like the people who will only run royal purple in their Camry cause anything less than that will cause horrible engine failure.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:05 AM
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As long as the correct amount of the now mostly missing additives are in the oil, it really makes no difference whether they got there by being added to regular oil or if they are already in the oil. The important thing is that the additive (whatever brand it is) has the correct zinc/phosphorus anti wear agents, and that they're in the correct ratio (ppm). Not all oil additives contain the 'right stuff' so it pays to research it.

BTW- Break in oil should not be used after break in, it has too much additives for everyday use.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
Nope.Not me too.We'll stand behind the oil recommendations as a multi engine builder.In fact we still have builds out there that are flat tappet engines,but awhile ago we now refuse to build anything that isn't a roller cam.
You sir are trying to get me a divorce. Joe Gibbs Driven HR-2 Conventional High Performance Motor Oil 02006 - SummitRacing.com

8 something a qt. Well so far iv found ur advice to be dead on so i guess this is what im gonna have to run. Thanks guys.


You all rock - pm me your adresses and ill mail each and one of yall a beer or two. THANKS A TON.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:43 AM
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You sir are trying to get me a divorce. Joe Gibbs Driven HR-2 Conventional High Performance Motor Oil 02006 - SummitRacing.com

8 something a qt. Well so far iv found ur advice to be dead on so i guess this is what im gonna have to run. Thanks guys.


You all rock - pm me your adresses and ill mail each and one of yall a beer or two. THANKS A TON.
You can also use ZDDPlus added to OTC motor oil.

Speaking of beer, I haven't had a Genesee Cream Ale since forever.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 01:05 AM
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Ill say this about oils -I had a 93 ford f150 5.0 with a e40d - when i got it I went straight to royal purple - I got the truck with 20k on it and drove it to 300k - at 300k I started using a cheaper oil - Valvoline high mileage due to lack of money. Almost at start up I could tell the engine did not run or act the same. 1 k later on my trip home I noticed lack of power (A puffing sound when pulling of the high-way coming to a stop and taking off-sounded like a exhaust leak) I pulled over and checked every thing everything looked good until about 200 miles later - I was out of oil- Added oil and anther 100 miles i was out again - on my trip home I went threw 6 gallons of oil.

Ran a compression check after being home a day and found 3 cylinders only had 50psi - the rest wear all at 145. I had snapped rings.

Mouths before this had happened I had 145psi across all cylinders.

The good thing is I drove 3 more times back to north Dakota like this. All high 80mph. The issue got worse - when I finely check the cylinders again i had lost compression on all but 1 and 4. WOULD STEAL DO A BUT OUT weak but it was a burn out.

This is the truck I trade for plus some money to me.
The thing that kills me is - I told this kid my truck had issue - I told him what was wrong and all. He promised me I could fix the wiring and do a carb job and be good. He lied to me or didn know what he was doing.

He told me he had changed the oil - but never started it bc of the wiring issue (A wired smoke when u turned the key on). The issue with the wiring was so simple. He had the starter for the 400 wired the same way it would have been with the original 6 cylinder engine. I swapped the wires at the starter around and all issues wear fixed. Thats when I checked the oil (It was over filled but i thought this was normal bc the oil had be changed and the engine had not filled the oil filter) - so I dumped some carb starting fluid in the carb and fired her up a few times - I noticed oil psi issues and the oil would turn milky looking after running... My next thing I checked was anti freeze - It looked like straight water in the radiator so i freaked... I pulled the lower hose off the block and found there was antifreeze in the block- There wasn't a ton of antifreeze but there was a good amount. He had informed me that he installed a aluminum radiator and added antifreeze first then water... So i figured the lack of starting and running had not givin the engine time to mix up the water and antifreeze.

What I cant figure out is how the water go into the crank cause. Could the head have been cracked and over time the antifreeze drip into the cylinder and past the rings? With out the engine running creating pressure on the system.

I know the engine has had some rebuild work done to the lower end- He had receipts from the local race shop with dates and matching part numbers on almost everything. The receipts wear dated some time ago but the mileage shown on the receipts wear the same as the OD on the dash. The only thing I did not find receipts on is the heads....... I get the filling this falls back on what Gary1 was saying about spending a ton of money and then cheeping out at the end. I think he had alote of good work done on the short block but didn do anything to the heads.
It Has a tooker 2 intake aswel. Thanks guys.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:11 AM
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Until a few weeks ago I had never heard of Joe Gibbs oil ether as I wasn't in the market for a rebuilt engine or in my case ended up changing out the cam and lifters after discovering my real issue. Was it a waste to use the break in oil just for a cam change ... probably not after hearing of the possibility of ruining a brand new cam as has been done many times from what I see now on forums. After all there is a reason why GM has a product as well to put into a new or reman engine I surmised. The shop I bought my cam and other associated parts from spoke up right away about using the break in oil but said in my case with only a cam change he recommended I run the oil for a couple of hours down the road vs just dumping it after a 30 minute cam break in. Then I switched to the 10W-30 HR-2 you have listed above for an additional run in for a few thousand miles before going back to my original oil and had the engine shop order me up some of the small bottles of the ZDD type additive as I couldn't find it anywhere in town. I think a lot of guys look at the price of the oil or the additive and have a fit and just run oil from off the shelf but I guess my mind told me, better be safe and spend a little more now then regret it later and have a huge repair bill. Here's the link to the initial break in oil I went with, to not be confused with the normal long term Joe Gibbs oils.

Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In Motor Oil 00106 - SummitRacing.com


As to sweetlil66 and that mysterious engine issue right off the bat, my gut tells me someone knew a lot more then they were telling ... could be wrong but something just doesn't sit right in my mind as I read over this thread. Dumping all oil and coolant out and topping off without even trying to start it so as not to get any coolant or water into the oil, that would be my assumption. Oh well, now it is what it is but I'm hopeful you will get it all sorted out and also have a lot better idea of what is in your engine, shape wise and so on after you replace what needs attention.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:45 PM
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I believe with staying with the same oil for the life of the engine, but i don't think that really expensive oil will make you engine last any longer. Maybe the oil will last longer, but not the engine. Just my opinion. I had a tahoe with 230k on it that had always been run of regular house brand 10w30, and it ran perfect with perfect compression and no ticks or sounds of any kind. I also think some engines are just longer lasting. Although i have heard of royal purple doing magic stuff like fixing knocks and other crazy stuff, i don't find a lot of those stories believable.
Lil66: what may have happened with your old truck was the new oil had different solvent properties than the royal purple. As in it dislodged a bunch of crap and clogged up your oil passages causing starvation. Just my guess, but it makes sense to me.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog7373 View Post
I believe with staying with the same oil for the life of the engine, but i don't think that really expensive oil will make you engine last any longer. Maybe the oil will last longer, but not the engine. Just my opinion. I had a tahoe with 230k on it that had always been run of regular house brand 10w30, and it ran perfect with perfect compression and no ticks or sounds of any kind. I also think some engines are just longer lasting. Although i have heard of royal purple doing magic stuff like fixing knocks and other crazy stuff, i don't find a lot of those stories believable.
Lil66: what may have happened with your old truck was the new oil had different solvent properties than the royal purple. As in it dislodged a bunch of crap and clogged up your oil passages causing starvation. Just my guess, but it makes sense to me.
True enough I really don't know you very well.And surely I don't want to get into a debate about oils.The advise we have given is from a engine builder/race operation that has been around for a very long time.We have been involved in used oils testing for yrs.I like to think we offer one of the most full service engine building follow-ups anyone could find anywhere.

I am quite sure you have read about guys as I described.Those results are not necessary as long as the precautions are taken that I advised.Just trying to reason with you.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:17 AM
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Who is "we"???

Quote:
The advise we have given is from a engine builder/race operation that has been around for a very long time.We have been involved...
Gary1, w/all due respect since day one you have used your affiliation w/a company you supposedly work(ed?) for as a reference or indication of your knowledge/prowess as an authority on things automotive. And yet again I'm seeing it here, you bring it up maybe more than you realize. I have asked privately who "we" is to satisfy my own curiosity- you refused, even if the info was to be kept confidential. And that's your right, and I'm fine w/that.

That said, IMO using "them" as your reference means nothing. IMO just state the facts as you know them and leave it at that. There's nothing to be gained by citing a ghost company.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2013, 02:09 PM
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Gary1, w/all due respect since day one you have used your affiliation w/a company you supposedly work(ed?) for as a reference or indication of your knowledge/prowess as an authority on things automotive. And yet again I'm seeing it here, you bring it up maybe more than you realize. I have asked privately who "we" is to satisfy my own curiosity- you refused, even if the info was to be kept confidential. And that's your right, and I'm fine w/that.

That said, IMO using "them" as your reference means nothing. IMO just state the facts as you know them and leave it at that. There's nothing to be gained by citing a ghost company.
I've told you in private the reasons why that has to be that way.Remember??. The whole point of that is it is the ref from which the info is being provided and more extensive in scope than just a end user.There is no end gain to the business because we are not accepting any new customers for the last 3 or 4 yrs.Here is a classic case of customer support in no small part being one the reasons why we have the customer base we do.We meaning a partnership that I am 1/2 owner of.And they meaning the customer's results of having us test their used oils.I do think we over the yrs have tried every combo you can that is out there and continue to do so.

I am very proud of what I have accomplished when over the yrs we where told you can't make money doing "that" when honestly the original investment has grown far beyond my wildest dreams. So I respectfully decline to stop using it as a ref for the source of my suggestions or recommendations.

I think this post does cover the inquiry you have made.And as you already know that is as far into that as I can go.Just here paying back to all those who have supported us and helped us over the yrs.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:12 AM
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wow lol. This is better then cable.
Ok guys - Im making note of everything that is being said - My next question is - When installing the cam bearing do I just line up the oil holes in the cam with the oil holes/passages on the block???
If I remember properly some of the bearings are bigger then the others -

Will the new bearings come with info as far as what order each bearing goes?



I was looking at summit today just to find how the cost of a new crank.
I found this one - Eagle Cast Steel Crankshafts 104003750 - SummitRacing.com
A good set of rod bearing wear 14$ and the only set of mains wear 75$.
Is this about the right price for bearings?

Mains - Eagle Cast Steel Crankshafts 104003750 - SummitRacing.com

Rods - Summit Racing® Connecting Rod Bearings SUM-171000 - SummitRacing.com

Thanks guys!
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 06:04 AM
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A,when you had this hot tanked,you didn't have the machine shop put in cam bearings and soft plugs??. Guess I'm confused here because the cost to do that is so small.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:01 AM
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No I did not mostly because I have not pulled the engine yet.
Im asking because Im not sure if Im going to have the money to hottank the block....
Hottanking is gonna cost me more the 300$ maybe more. Hottank is 200$ then new rings + 75$ for molly.

So im not sure whats gonna happen. yes I would like to have the shop do it but no i dont have the money.
I would love to install new rings and stuff.

So in the meantime while I wait to see if I have the money - I would also like to know how to do it my self If it came down to that.

Thanks guys.
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