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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2013, 06:53 PM
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Dude,
I hope your just using the height mic incorrectly. I have the same SUM-900032, and I took a pic with a caliper contacting the locations that the mic is measuring(extreme top/bottom). I say this because of the recess at the top of the mic is approximately .150" deep, and if your retainer has a diameter of less than 1.216" there is a good chance that it will rest at the bottom of the recess instead of at the top, giving you a reading that is about .150" too tall.
If you insert a valve into the guide, place the mic on the spring pocket with it adjusted close to minimum height. Place the retainer on the mic temporarily. Smear a small dab of grease on the lock groove on the valve stem. Install the retainer locks onto the groove(grease should hold themin place)(upper groove if there are two grooves), pick up the mic/retainer at the same time so that the locks fit into the retainer and lock in place, and turn the mic so that it expands until it just takes up all the slack between the retainer and the spring pocket in the head.
The pocket in the head should be just slightly larger than the spring. It needs to keep the spring from dancing around. If its much larger you may need spring cups to locate the spring.
If the retainer is on the top of the mic(not in the recess) it will indicate what the spring installed height would be if you had the spring installed instead of the mic. If your reading was .720" on the mic(the 1 is not marked on the mic, but taken for granted as it only measures between 1.4"-1.8") then you would need to install a .020" shim (with the same OD as the spring pocket and close to the same ID as the OD of the guide boss) to achieve an installed height of 1.7".
I didn't see the spring specs at the Summit link for the pressure at the installed height(valve closed), but it should be around 110lbs(+/-10lbs or so).
What I did see was the max lift of .490". They didn't indicate coil bind height.
There should be at least .060" between max lift and coil bind height.
Try to measure the distance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the installed valve stem seals that came in the kit with the valve at the max lift of .466". Should be over .050".
If your retainer is sitting in the recess of the mic you can place a shim on top of the mic(1.5" dia+/-) that has a large enough diameter hole that the retainer can sit in, take your measurement, then add the shim thickness to your measurement for the actual height. I had to use a .060" shim for my small diameter "beehive" retainers.
Good luck,
ssmonty
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
I got the height reader today. Im showing 8-25 intake and 8-40 exhaust. Iv got all the springs changed. I got some more info but I home maybe some one can tell me if my reading are good so far.
Lil', it's very unusual for a stock length SBC valve to give such large installed heights.

So be sure the valve stems are not + .100 in length- many aftermarket heads use the longer-than-stock valves, and the longer valves can also be bought and used in most any head in order to give more installed height. More installed height is used to enable the use of different springs with cams having more lift.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty View Post
Dude,
I hope your just using the height mic incorrectly. I have the same SUM-900032, and I took a pic with a caliper contacting the locations that the mic is measuring(extreme top/bottom). I say this because of the recess at the top of the mic is approximately .150" deep, and if your retainer has a diameter of less than 1.216" there is a good chance that it will rest at the bottom of the recess instead of at the top, giving you a reading that is about .150" too tall.
If you insert a valve into the guide, place the mic on the spring pocket with it adjusted close to minimum height. Place the retainer on the mic temporarily. Smear a small dab of grease on the lock groove on the valve stem. Install the retainer locks onto the groove(grease should hold themin place)(upper groove if there are two grooves), pick up the mic/retainer at the same time so that the locks fit into the retainer and lock in place, and turn the mic so that it expands until it just takes up all the slack between the retainer and the spring pocket in the head.
The pocket in the head should be just slightly larger than the spring. It needs to keep the spring from dancing around. If its much larger you may need spring cups to locate the spring.
If the retainer is on the top of the mic(not in the recess) it will indicate what the spring installed height would be if you had the spring installed instead of the mic. If your reading was .720" on the mic(the 1 is not marked on the mic, but taken for granted as it only measures between 1.4"-1.8") then you would need to install a .020" shim (with the same OD as the spring pocket and close to the same ID as the OD of the guide boss) to achieve an installed height of 1.7".
I didn't see the spring specs at the Summit link for the pressure at the installed height(valve closed), but it should be around 110lbs(+/-10lbs or so).
What I did see was the max lift of .490". They didn't indicate coil bind height.
There should be at least .060" between max lift and coil bind height.
Try to measure the distance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the installed valve stem seals that came in the kit with the valve at the max lift of .466". Should be over .050".
If your retainer is sitting in the recess of the mic you can place a shim on top of the mic(1.5" dia+/-) that has a large enough diameter hole that the retainer can sit in, take your measurement, then add the shim thickness to your measurement for the actual height. I had to use a .060" shim for my small diameter "beehive" retainers.
Good luck,
ssmonty
Wow. I understood about half that. Ill re-read this in the morning. Iv been up since 5am with a peed off poor sickly baby and i just got him asleep. Im probably not catching wat ur saying because I tired. I thick ur telling me to - Take a shim that the retainer will fit inside and and place it between the top of the tool and the retainer and recheck my specs. (Do I leave the shims in-place on the lower side?

I also have oil shields - Could this effect it? https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...wuRuhF1GihUFRf
***Take you colbolt for teaching me the proper name*** I was so tired of saying upside down bowl/cup thingy.

I dont see away to check what it would be with the shield installed. Altho IDEA. Does anyone know the thickness of the oil shield??? I could find a shim that matchs its thickness and get my readings.

Guys I really mean its. This means alote to me. I dont wanna waest ur time or mine buy ***** it in the last few miles. Thanks.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
Lil', it's very unusual for a stock length SBC valve to give such large installed heights.

So be sure the valve stems are not + .100 in length- many aftermarket heads use the longer-than-stock valves, and the longer valves can also be bought and used in most any head in order to give more installed height. More installed height is used to enable the use of different springs with cams having more lift.
Are you saying I may need different valves? How do I check the valve stems for length???


BTW- Here is my facebook. Iv uploaded a video of the engine and me using the height tool.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sweetlil66 View Post
Wow. I understood about half that. Ill re-read this in the morning. Iv been up since 5am with a peed off poor sickly baby and i just got him asleep. Im probably not catching wat ur saying because I tired. I thick ur telling me to - Take a shim that the retainer will fit inside and and place it between the top of the tool and the retainer and recheck my specs. (Do I leave the shims in-place on the lower side?

I also have oil shields - Could this effect it? https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...wuRuhF1GihUFRf
***Take you colbolt for teaching me the proper name*** I was so tired of saying upside down bowl/cup thingy.

I dont see away to check what it would be with the shield installed. Altho IDEA. Does anyone know the thickness of the oil shield??? I could find a shim that matchs its thickness and get my readings.

Guys I really mean its. This means alote to me. I dont wanna waest ur time or mine buy ***** it in the last few miles. Thanks.
I think you're right about going to sleep and checking it in the morning.

I don't understand a word you just said, LOL......
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:07 AM
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Ok retyped.)EDITED) SOOO TIRED! https://www.facebook.com/rebel.richey.3?ref=tn_tnmn FEEL FREE TO ADD MY FACEBOOK IF YOU LIKE. VIDEO IS HERE. https://www.facebook.com/rebel.richey.3?ref=tn_tnmn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty View Post
Dude,
I hope your just using the height mic incorrectly. I have the same SUM-900032, and I took a pic with a caliper contacting the locations that the mic is measuring(extreme top/bottom). I say this because of the recess at the top of the mic is approximately .150" deep, and if your retainer has a diameter of less than 1.216" there is a good chance that it will rest at the bottom of the recess instead of at the top, giving you a reading that is about .150" too tall.
If you insert a valve into the guide, place the mic on the spring pocket with it adjusted close to minimum height. Place the retainer on the mic temporarily. Smear a small dab of grease on the lock groove on the valve stem. Install the retainer locks onto the groove(grease should hold themin place)(upper groove if there are two grooves), pick up the mic/retainer at the same time so that the locks fit into the retainer and lock in place, and turn the mic so that it expands until it just takes up all the slack between the retainer and the spring pocket in the head.
The pocket in the head should be just slightly larger than the spring. It needs to keep the spring from dancing around. If its much larger you may need spring cups to locate the spring.
If the retainer is on the top of the mic(not in the recess) it will indicate what the spring installed height would be if you had the spring installed instead of the mic. If your reading was .720" on the mic(the 1 is not marked on the mic, but taken for granted as it only measures between 1.4"-1.8") then you would need to install a .020" shim (with the same OD as the spring pocket and close to the same ID as the OD of the guide boss) to achieve an installed height of 1.7".
I didn't see the spring specs at the Summit link for the pressure at the installed height(valve closed), but it should be around 110lbs(+/-10lbs or so).
What I did see was the max lift of .490". They didn't indicate coil bind height.
There should be at least .060" between max lift and coil bind height.
Try to measure the distance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the installed valve stem seals that came in the kit with the valve at the max lift of .466". Should be over .050".
If your retainer is sitting in the recess of the mic you can place a shim on top of the mic(1.5" dia+/-) that has a large enough diameter hole that the retainer can sit in, take your measurement, then add the shim thickness to your measurement for the actual height. I had to use a .060" shim for my small diameter "beehive" retainers.
Good luck,
ssmonty
Wow. I understood about half that. Ill re-read this in the morning. Iv been up since 5am with a peed off poor sickly baby and i just got him asleep. Im probably not catching wat ur saying because I tired. I think ur telling me to - Take a shim that the retainer will fit inside and and place it between the top of the tool and the retainer and recheck my specs. (Do I leave the shims in-place on the lower side?

I also have oil shields - Could this effect it? https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...wuRuhF1GihUFRf
***Thank you colbolt for teaching me the proper name*** I was so tired of saying upside down bowl/cup thingy.

I dont see away to check what it would be with the oil shield installed. Altho IDEA. Does anyone know the thickness of the oil shield??? I could find a shim that matchs its thickness and get my readings.

Guys I really mean its. This means alote to me. I dont wanna waste ur time or mine buy ***** it in the last few miles. Thanks.

EDITED MISS-SPELLING.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 07:53 AM
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Like I said,"I hope your just using the height mic incorrectly". I didn't want to bring up the possibility of .100" longer valves as it seems you have enough issues to deal with. Maybe the attached pics will help me get the point across that the mic has a recess(I don't know why?) that your retainer might be sitting in(first pic) that will cause a bad measurement.
If it is, you can use a shim(second pic) to take a measurement, then add the thickness of the shim to the reading on the mic to get a correct measurement.
I guess I could install it on the head and take another pic if you can't get the idea I'm trying to get across. My ability to put it into words isn't so good, and a picture is worth a thousand words. If you want me to let me know, but its gonna take a while. I have some things I have to get done 1st.
If they are longer than stock valves, the shop should have told you. They come in longer lengths to provide room for increased lift cams/spring assemblies to keep the springs from coil bind, or getting stacked solid at max lift. The springs for them would state a 1.8" installed height for instance.
Its possible to machine the pockets deeper, but .100" is allot, and I doubt that's your issue.
To measure the valves a pair of calipers is one method. If I'm not mistaken a stock sbc valve should measure 4.9" long from the valve face to the end of the stem. You may get close enough with a combination square and setting the valve on a table? Its crude, but it should be less than 5".(3rd pic) You can see(I believe) that it measures just over 4-7/8"(4.875"), or about 4.9".
Good luck,
ssmonty
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty View Post
Like I said,"I hope your just using the height mic incorrectly". I didn't want to bring up the possibility of .100" longer valves as it seems you have enough issues to deal with. Maybe the attached pics will help me get the point across that the mic has a recess(I don't know why?) that your retainer might be sitting in(first pic) that will cause a bad measurement.
If it is, you can use a shim(second pic) to take a measurement, then add the thickness of the shim to the reading on the mic to get a correct measurement.
I guess I could install it on the head and take another pic if you can't get the idea I'm trying to get across. My ability to put it into words isn't so good, and a picture is worth a thousand words. If you want me to let me know, but its gonna take a while. I have some things I have to get done 1st.
If they are longer than stock valves, the shop should have told you. They come in longer lengths to provide room for increased lift cams/spring assemblies to keep the springs from coil bind, or getting stacked solid at max lift. The springs for them would state a 1.8" installed height for instance.
Its possible to machine the pockets deeper, but .100" is allot, and I doubt that's your issue.
To measure the valves a pair of calipers is one method. If I'm not mistaken a stock sbc valve should measure 4.9" long from the valve face to the end of the stem. You may get close enough with a combination square and setting the valve on a table? Its crude, but it should be less than 5".(3rd pic) You can see(I believe) that it measures just over 4-7/8"(4.875"), or about 4.9".
Good luck,
ssmonty
Ok ill give that a try. But I dont have a mic. Ill see if i can track one down.

The head Iv been getting the readings on is the head that was on the truck not the one the shop built... BUT ill check the one the shop did to see what it reads
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 01:41 PM
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Man I really running out of money and ideas for this...
My wife got rob early this morning so iv been deal with that issue.

Im so close to getting this done but i feel 10 miles away.

Guys ill be back in a bit. Im gonna see if I can find me a mic.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 01:43 PM
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Some one check out the video and tell me if Im doing everything right.

PLZ
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:34 PM
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"Guys ill be back in a bit. Im gonna see if I can find me a mic."
You lost me. I thought you said you bought a valve spring height mic?
I'm not a facebook member, so I can't view your link. At least I think thats the problem.
Good Luck,
ssmonty
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:35 PM
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Im thinking SSmonty hit it on the head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDKPVxPtcc just jump to 5mins into the video. My retainer is setting down INSIDE unlike this one in the video and the pics ssmonty posted...

Let me see if I can get a mic.

Thanks guys.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty View Post
"Guys ill be back in a bit. Im gonna see if I can find me a mic."
You lost me. I thought you said you bought a valve spring height mic?
I'm not a facebook member, so I can't view your link. At least I think thats the problem.
Good Luck,
ssmonty
ABout this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty View Post
Dude,
I hope your just using the height mic incorrectly. I have the same SUM-900032, and I took a pic with a caliper contacting the locations that the mic is measuring(extreme top/bottom). I say this because of the recess at the top of the mic is approximately .150" deep, and if your retainer has a diameter of less than 1.216" there is a good chance that it will rest at the bottom of the recess instead of at the top, giving you a reading that is about .150" too tall.
If you insert a valve into the guide, place the mic on the spring pocket with it adjusted close to minimum height. Place the retainer on the mic temporarily. Smear a small dab of grease on the lock groove on the valve stem. Install the retainer locks onto the groove(grease should hold themin place)(upper groove if there are two grooves), pick up the mic/retainer at the same time so that the locks fit into the retainer and lock in place, and turn the mic so that it expands until it just takes up all the slack between the retainer and the spring pocket in the head.
The pocket in the head should be just slightly larger than the spring. It needs to keep the spring from dancing around. If its much larger you may need spring cups to locate the spring.
If the retainer is on the top of the mic(not in the recess) it will indicate what the spring installed height would be if you had the spring installed instead of the mic. If your reading was .720" on the mic(the 1 is not marked on the mic, but taken for granted as it only measures between 1.4"-1.8") then you would need to install a .020" shim (with the same OD as the spring pocket and close to the same ID as the OD of the guide boss) to achieve an installed height of 1.7".
I didn't see the spring specs at the Summit link for the pressure at the installed height(valve closed), but it should be around 110lbs(+/-10lbs or so).
What I did see was the max lift of .490". They didn't indicate coil bind height.
There should be at least .060" between max lift and coil bind height.
Try to measure the distance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the installed valve stem seals that came in the kit with the valve at the max lift of .466". Should be over .050".
If your retainer is sitting in the recess of the mic you can place a shim on top of the mic(1.5" dia+/-) that has a large enough diameter hole that the retainer can sit in, take your measurement, then add the shim thickness to your measurement for the actual height. I had to use a .060" shim for my small diameter "beehive" retainers.
Good luck,
ssmonty


I do not have a Micrometer Guage like ur using in that pic.

I thought i needed one?
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:53 PM
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Ignore that above post. Im reading way to many forums on this subject and got side tracked.
Ok so I used a shim like monty showed. I got a reading of 6.70 *1.670* Plus the shim size of .030 bringing the reading upto 1.700
Now Im asuming the shim is a .030. Im not sure what size it is - all it says is V.S.I 203.
So here are the specs for the springs.
Brand:Summit Racing
Manufacturer's Part Number:SUM-174001
Part Type:Valve Spring and Retainer Kits
Product Line:Summit Racing® Valve Spring and Retainer Kits
Summit Racing Part Number:SUM-174001

Number of Springs Per Valve:Single
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in):1.260 in.
Damper Spring Included:Yes
Spring Rate (lbs/in):357 lbs./in.
Inside Diameter of Outer Spring (in):0.875 in.
Valve Spring Style:Standard
Coated:No
Retainers Included:Yes
Retainer Material:Steel
Locks Included:Yes
Lock Style:7 degree
Lock Groove Quantity:1-groove
Lock Material:Steel
Quantity:Sold as a kit.
Notesesigned for Chevy small block applications. 0.490 in. maximum lift. installed at 1.700 in. Includes Viton valve stem seals.

Heres the cam.
Brand:Summit Racing
Manufacturer's Part Number:SUM-1103
Part Type:Camshafts
Product Line:Summit Racing® Camshafts
Summit Racing Part Number:SUM-1103

Cam Style:Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range:1,600-5,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:214
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:224
Duration at 050 inch Lift:214 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:288
Advertised Exhaust Duration:298
Advertised Duration:288 int./298 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.444 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.466 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.444 int./0.466 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):112
Computer-Controlled Compatible:No
Valve Springs Required:Yes
Camshaft Manufacturers Description:Fair idle, low midrange torque/horsepower, works well in 327 and higher c.i.d. engines. Largest camshaft with stock converter.


Um am I gonna need bigger/longer push rods????

Thanks guys.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:21 PM
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Did yall give up on me lol?
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