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Old 03-26-2010, 02:35 PM
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SBC Rod Bearings

Hi all. First post. (I did do a search)

Getting ready to set my pistons on a new build.
Question I have:

Using Sealed Power 2555CP bearings, is there a cap bearing and a rod bearing or does it not matter ?
Both halves look almost identical.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:19 PM
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They are identical. It`s pretty much fool proof. It comes in the package with halves together. Make sure the surfaces and your hands are clean and stick`em in, lube`em and install.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmuysprv
Hi all. First post. (I did do a search)

Getting ready to set my pistons on a new build.
Question I have:

Using Sealed Power 2555CP bearings, is there a cap bearing and a rod bearing or does it not matter ?
Both halves look almost identical.
Thanks in advance.
Rod bearings for cap and shank are the same. The retention tangs face each other when assembled. The rods are directional, there will be a larger chamfer on one side or the bearing will be offset to one side compared to the other. The chamfer and/or bearing offset always faces the crank not the other rod. This means on every pair of rods on a throw, one chamfer/relief faces forward and one backward. Pay careful attention to this as getting them backwards will jam the bearing into the relief radius where the crank's rod journal blends into its cheeks.

Some bearing sets have a oil passage groove on one side, these are a left over from older engines where the rod had a groove around one bolt to feed an oil stream onto the piston and cylinder wall. Or the rods, if old enough, may have this feature while new bearings may not. It is not a feature that you need to make functional if any of its traces are present in any of the parts, ignore it.

Bogie
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:38 PM
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Is it a production crankshaft or aftermarket?
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:51 PM
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Thanks guys & thanks bogie, familiar with the rod camfer directions and the valve cups on the pistons.
I thought it didn't matter w/ the con rod bearings, just wanted that reassurance.

Oh inspector, it's an aftermarket crank
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:47 AM
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The reason I asked is that many aftermarket cranks are produced with a more generous fillet where the journal surface meets the counterweight cheek. If standard P bearings are used with these cranks, there can be interference between the corner of the bearing shell and the fillet. Please take a few minutes to read the following and bring yourself up to speed on bearings....this was written for Mopars, but it applies to any motor.....
http://www.440source.com/bearings.htm
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:35 PM
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Inspector, this is the crank I'm running:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SES-3-48-05-000/

these are the rod bearings that were recomended:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-2555CP/
Looks like they are a CP series

I'm wondering if I should have gotten these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-82555A/

Thanks again

Last edited by tmuysprv; 03-27-2010 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:08 PM
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The crank is listed from Summit as not needing narrow bearings so what you have is just fine. I might choose the other bearing if it was a circle track engine or you were going to hit it with some nitrous, but that is just for the different material(bimetal is harder) used in the other bearing. If this is a street engine stick with what you have already.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
The crank is listed from Summit as not needing narrow bearings so what you have is just fine. I might choose the other bearing if it was a circle track engine or you were going to hit it with some nitrous, but that is just for the different material(bimetal is harder) used in the other bearing. If this is a street engine stick with what you have already.
Thanks Eric,
That's a comfort to hear.
Just set and filed my rings @0.025

Followed the following info:

Picture a compass on the top of the piston, with the arrow facing North.

Gap on #1 compression ring goes at Northwest (45 deg away from the arrow)
Gap on #2 compression ring goes at Southeast (180 degrees opposite #1)
Gap on top oil ring goes at Northeast (90 deg away from the compression rings)
Bottom oil ring goes to Southwest (180 deg opposite top oil ring)

The important things are:
- compression ring gaps are 180 deg opposite each other
- oil ring gaps are 180 opposite each other, and 90 deg away from the compression ring gaps
- none of the ring gaps are in line with the wrist pin (they should all be 45 deg away from a line drawn through the wrist pin, like an X).


Need to go into the office for a few hours. Plan to brake clean everything, set the bearings, check everything with plasti-gage , then oil em up and drop em in.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:25 PM
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The bearings you're using as previously stated can go in either half. The H bearings have an upper and lower due to their width.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar
The bearings you're using as previously stated can go in either half. The H bearings have an upper and lower due to their width.
I've heard of the Deltawall P series bearings having uppers and lowers, but hadn't known that was the case w/H series bearings.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:28 AM
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So at this point, I could not be more upset w my machine shop.
Finished up the piston install 1,3,5,7. Switch to the other side and knock out 2,4,6,8. The 8 cap is tight and requires some effort to push down on to the rod.
Rotate the crank to a position I can start checking w plastigage and the crank has gone really stiff.
look at the play between 1&2 - good, as is 3&4, 5&6. 7&8 however are now wedged together w the rotation of the crank,

Pull the caps on 7&8 to relieve the pressure and notice that rod &cap for 7 are slightly different than the other seven.

Pull up my pre break-down pictures and sure as hell the machine shop has given me a different rod attached to my new piston and stamped it wit a 7.

I haven't mic'd it to see how much thicker it is but will be going down there with #7 this morning. I only turned the crank about 120*
What kind of damage could I have done ?
If these idiots can't produce my #7 rod, what should I do ?
Can this rod be milled on the side, doesn't it need to be balanced to the other 7"

And to prevent the question before it comes, yes, the camfer direction was correct.

I am frigg'n furious !

I'll try to get some pics up in a bit
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:48 AM
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Hang on, Hoss- before you go there w/'tude, there could be a good explanation for the rod swap.

If they found an un-resizable rod, it might have been them doing you a "favor" by replacing it w/a 'new' (to you, anyway) rod.

That they didn't check the width to see from the start if it would fit correctly WAS wrong, as is not telling you.

The balance will also be affected by this, unless they weight-matched the 'new' rod to your old one.

99.9% chance that there was no damage was done. And good job that you caught it now.

EDIT- I see that you already caught the balance part, and yes, the rod can be corrected for the right width- hopefully not just hit on the belt sander (some shops do just that, and I suppose it's "good enough" for a grocery-getter, but I think it's a poor practice for any decent performance engine/shop).

Last edited by cobalt327; 03-29-2010 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:25 PM
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holy coincidence Batman.
8:30am
So I stop by the mach shop,hold my tone, as best as I can while the tech tells me the #7 rod i have in my hand IS my rod, even though the black & whites i have from pre disassembly PROVE it is not. He asks what to do and I suggest shaving the rod .012 as a start. I have a mtg to go to and will be back at 2:00pm

1330 I get back to the shop, manager is there and starts by explaining why he swapped out my rod when they did the machine work. Said he chose a good rod that measured in length and weight equal to the other seven. (said original was egged out .003) Actually had my old rod.
Has not machined the rod because he wants to see the crank.

I drive the the house and load the block into the truck and head back, upon inspection, we find there is a dent on the #7 side of the crank next to the journal (they think it could have been dropped) With the cap and a bearing, we verify exactly where the area is.
I know Summit is going to piss and moan so we discuss methods to resolve.

Get home, tape everything off and with a small fine file work the impression out of the side of the crank. With the bearing and cap I verify that it rolls around the journal without interference.

It gets better,
I drop in the piston assy and go to tighten her up, tight again.
Tap it out and look at the chamfer on the new #7 vs the old #7. They are not even close. My old one had a 1/8" deep 45* chamfer, the "new" one looks like maybe 1/32"

Guess I get to go BACK to the shop tomorrow.
At this point I guess they can either chamfer the new one deeper, or resize my old one.
I wanted to be done tonight. This isn't going to happen.

Last edited by tmuysprv; 03-29-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:16 AM
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Lil update;
Got the old rod (my origional) resized, mounted the piston, installed ...
NO problems.

I'm just about finished with the build, thought I'd post a few pics as requested.

This is what I started with:


Pistons finished up:


Cam:


Gear drives set, end play adjusted:


Heads torqued:


New Melling high vol pump:


Setting valve lash:


Intake going on:



Vanity shot:
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