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-   -   SBC stroker project, small budget (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/sbc-stroker-project-small-budget-111467.html)

jankinnu 03-16-2007 03:37 AM

SBC stroker project, small budget
 
Greetings from Finland, Europe.

Here's my project details for a small-budget stroker:

sbc350 2-bolt block, 10A140296, T0224CNN and 3970014 (250hp originally)
3.75" Stroke Eagle cast crankshaft,(bobweight 1870?)
5.7" Rods
9.76:1 compression ratio pistons (Keith Black KB111, 535g+146g pin)
76cc ported heads, casting 3932441.
750cfm Holley carb. Vacuum secondaries.
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" Headers, "Shorty"
2x2.5" Exhaust pipes
Mopar chrome ignition box P4120534
All new Clevite bearings+gasket&water plug kits
TH350 transmission with shift kit
Ford 9" rear axle, rear end ratio 3.25 or 3.5
Car is about 3000lbs+driver

I'm planning on keeping the revs below 5500rpm. The cas is meant for cruising and burnouts during summer times(about 3 months a year).
Present camshaft has intake closing time angle of 29degrees (ABDC=29deg, ABDC+15deg=44deg).This gives me a dynamic compression ratio of 8.88, which is too much for my application. I'm targeting DCR=8.5:1 or below, so the camshaft has to be changed --> ABDC>39deg, ABDC+15deg=54deg. Comp Cams Extreme 268H or 274H would give 8.4:1 and 8.3:1 DCR. How about Crane WG1170 (Equals GM L-46)?


Questions:
-What is the weight of the stock 5.7" rods and bearings? (Small end weight, Large end weight)
-I don't have the piston rings yet. KB111 pistons are hyper-pistons and the top ring is closer to the combustion chamber than normally. What kind of rings should I choose? Should the tension of the rings be normal or light?
-Any ideas how much hp/torque I might have in this setup when it is done?

techinspector1 03-16-2007 12:42 PM

Why not buy a kit and have the manufacturer balance the whole thing? Here's a basic budget kit with short rods for USD $520.
http://www.speedomotive.com/ps-41-8-...crank-kit.aspx
Here's another with 5.7 rods and hypers for USD $695
http://www.speedomotive.com/ps-42-8-...mouse-kit.aspx
Balancing is USD $150.
Just trying to give you some options. Don't know whether you're using a 2-piece or 1-piece rear seal. I believe both the ones I've shown are 2-piece, but they also have kits for the 1-piece seal blocks.

jankinnu 03-18-2007 02:23 PM

Thanks for the links. I live in Finland, Europe. The shipping+taxes raises the price of the kits.

Anyway. I have those parts that I listed. The engine is from year 1970. The crankshaft is internally balanced 2-piece rear sealing. The balancing job is not a problem. I can have it done at low price if I don't have to add that Mallory stuff.

F-BIRD'88 03-18-2007 03:42 PM

I would use the Crane HMV278 #113801 over the Crane Blue Racer copy of the old L-46/L-82 cam.
The Crane Blue Racer #WG1173 is another good one. Again Better than the old L-46. It works very well overall.
Both these cams are better suited to the 383 you are building than the L-46cam.
Either of these cams have a cool sounding moderate "street machine" idle yet are very streetable and cruise nicely.
Either cams are a good "street machine" "cruiser" match to your shorty headers and ported 441's.

How much power you'll make depends on how much airflow the engine has. So it really depends on how much time you have or will spend on porting your heads.
I say a honest 375-385 Bhp and 430+/- ft/lbs is a good estimate.
You can do some serious burnouts with that power.
:D

I would pass on the Chrysler ignition box and just use a GM HEI distributor with maybe a nice new MSD in cap coil. A moderate recurve of the timing curve is needed to dial it all in.

I would not try to get a rod weight spec off the internet.
Yours surely will be different. I'd leave that up to the guy doing the balancing job. He's going to have to equalize all the rods anyways.

F-BIRD'88 03-18-2007 03:56 PM

I would have selected a KB flat top (KB134) Uses standard size 5/64" ring set. (cheaper) and milled the 441 heads to 73cc and 0 decked the block for best quench clearance. Most detonation tolerance. 9.83:1 finished cr {A better build.}
At any rate pay close attention to KB's larger ring end gap recomendations if you want trouble free cruising and burnouts.
A basic entry level 150hp plate nitrous kit would be just right when it calls for you to bring out the guns...

jankinnu 03-26-2007 09:23 AM

Thanks for the information :)

I have been checking these camshafts and they can be very confusing. More aggressive ramps may wear the cam etc and the valve spring clearance issues must be taken into account. My friend recommended me also the L-46 cam (cheap price).

I ordered the piston rings: Hastings 2M5523.

I have been porting those heads for about 20 hours and they are finished now. When the engine is assembled and adjusted and the car is finished, I will go to dyno test it to a nearby neighbor (he has own rear wheel dyno :cool: ). I will let you know how did it run.

funbiz99 03-26-2007 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techinspector1
Why not buy a kit and have the manufacturer balance the whole thing? Here's a basic budget kit with short rods for USD $520.
http://www.speedomotive.com/ps-41-8-...crank-kit.aspx
Here's another with 5.7 rods and hypers for USD $695
http://www.speedomotive.com/ps-42-8-...mouse-kit.aspx
Balancing is USD $150.
Just trying to give you some options. Don't know whether you're using a 2-piece or 1-piece rear seal. I believe both the ones I've shown are 2-piece, but they also have kits for the 1-piece seal blocks.

techinspector have you checked this package??? not sure but i think they are selling chinese cranks in this package...(is chinese a bad thing? maybe)

F-BIRD'88 03-26-2007 08:58 PM

Althou the cams I sugested are more agressive than the old L-46 cam they are still designed to be easy on the valve train and last a long long time while producing more power and torque than the old factory cams.
The old L-46 factory cam was origionally designed for a 1969corvette 350/350hp engine with a 11:1 compression ratio and using corvette manifolds, not headers. A good cam in its day for the origional application but both the Crane cams I listed are better On a motor with headers and a modern pump gas friendly compression ratio. These cams are normally installed slightly advanced (about 5 to 7degrees) from straight up to enhance torque while the old L-46 cam was installed 1deg retarded from straight up to enhance performace with the skinny bias ply tires of the day (1969) in a light weight corvette using corvette manifolds and 11:1 compression.

What exactly do you find confusing about the Crane Cam specs?

jankinnu 03-27-2007 12:11 AM

I meant camshafts generally. There are lots of terms like lobe separation, ABDC, ramp intensity etc. I still have some learning to do how different camshaft profiles affect generally on performance. Lots of information can be found from the internet. I recently purchased John Lingenfelter's book about small block chevys and there is some good basic information.

Learning something new every day :)

techinspector1 03-27-2007 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbiz99
techinspector have you checked this package??? not sure but i think they are selling chinese cranks in this package...(is chinese a bad thing? maybe)

No, have not inquired about the sourcing of these particular kits, but have used Speed-O-Motive since I was a kid. They are an old line company and I doubt they would do anything to sacrifice their good name. You never know though. Thanks for bringing up the possibility. I'll call and talk with them.

funbiz99 03-27-2007 03:28 AM

just curious i got fooled with a C.A.T crank.....for now theres no problem but it seems the board doesnt like them

jankinnu 04-15-2007 02:13 PM

Any comments on summit SUM K1105 cam+lifters kit? It is quite cheap and the cam specs are quite similar.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

F-BIRD'88 04-15-2007 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jankinnu
Any comments on summit SUM K1105 cam+lifters kit? It is quite cheap and the cam specs are quite similar.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Now, you're cookin' with gas!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

machine shop tom 04-15-2007 05:53 PM

Questions:
-What is the weight of the stock 5.7" rods and bearings? (Small end weight, Large end weight)
-I don't have the piston rings yet. KB111 pistons are hyper-pistons and the top ring is closer to the combustion chamber than normally. What kind of rings should I choose? Should the tension of the rings be normal or light?
-Any ideas how much hp/torque I might have in this setup when it is done?

Stock rod weights (average) 415-420 grams big-end, 170 grams small end.

Rod bearing CB63P (STD.) 45.4 grams. Use standard tension oil rings. I prefer Hastings or Sealed power plasma moly ring sets.


tom

jankinnu 05-09-2007 09:22 AM

Some updates for the parts:
Camshaft: SUM-1105
lift with 1.5 rocker arms @valve 0.465" intake, 0.488" exhaust
advertised duration in282/ex292, duration @0.05" lift in224/ex234
intake opens 3deg BTDC closes 41deg ABDC
exhaust opens 56deg BBDC closes -2deg BTDC

Lifters: Sealed power SLP-HT-817
Valve Springs: Crane Cams CRN-99848-16

I'm planning on buying 1.6:1 rocker arms, new steel valves and forged connecting rods with arp bolts. Then I have all I need for now and further upgrades are easier (e.g. new heads).

The pistons can be installed with pressed or bushed connecting rods. Any comments on the benefits and disadvantages on these alternatives?


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