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Old 09-01-2009, 09:57 PM
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SBF stroker combo

Can anyone provide some info on a good SBF 347 stroker combo? I have a good 302 block, but I need the internals and heads. I have built several motors before but never a stroker. It's going in a '69 fastback with a toploader. It is strictly a Friday night show car and runs great but I'm interested in replacing my current 302 because I'm tired of my wife's SUV making more horsepower than my mustang. I would like to make around 450 HP and would like to keep the cost under $5,000 total. I already have a full roller valvetrain, a Victor Jr. intake and carb, an MSD distributor, and a Canton oil pan from the current motor that I can use, so I can spend most of the $5,000 on the stroker kit, heads, and machine work. Any suggestions?

Mike

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:15 PM
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T got my crank kit(crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings) from Coast High Performance, very happy with the quality, service, and the out come.

They sell several levels of kit, from street to all out Blown/Injected Race setups.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:35 PM
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Browse through these AFR dyno tests...
http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.php
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:12 AM
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Wow! Those dyno numbers are impressive! Part of why I'm a little confused is I'm trying to do this in stages. I would really like to put a blower on the car, but I don't think the budget will allow it. I have looked at some used blowers on the web but I'm a little nervous about buying something like that used on the internet. Also, I think eventually I would like to do a 351W stroker, but I have so much stuff for the 302 block that I feel compelled to do this motor first, not to mention that having to buy all of the stuff that I already have would be too expensive now. My dream motor is a 427 351W stroker with a blower. This is why I can't decide on a cylinder head. For just a standard 347 stroker I might go with AFR 165, for the 347 blower combo I might go 185 or 205, but for the 427 blower I might want the AFR 225. I was thinking of getting the stock casting 225 AFR for the 347 and build it with 9:1 CR and then adding the blower later. (I know this will cost me in performance until the blower is put on, with big ports and low CR.) When I upgrade to the 427 stroker I can have the 225s ported. Also, if I do find a good deal on a blower can I use the same one on the 347 as I do on the 427?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions. Any advice would be very appreciated.
Mike
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:56 AM
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You may be over-analyzing the whole thing. You can strap a blower on a bone-stock production motor, blow 6 psi into it and increase power by 40%. Forced induction can cover up a multitude of sins, so I don't think I would necessarily be thinking huge intake ports with a blower. I might if absolute max power was the goal, in a purpose-built 100% race motor, but in a street/strip driver, concessions must be made, particularly if the motor will be naturally aspirated in the transition period.

The other point I want to make is about static compression ratio. If I were going to strap a blower on a motor, I'd be thinking somewhere between 7.0 and 8.0 if I had to run pump gas. The higher the static c.r., the higher the effective c.r. and the less boost you can blow into the motor on pump gas. A rule of thumb is 8 for 8. (8.0:1 static compression ratio for 8 psi boost on pump gas). 7.0:1 will allow 12 lbs of boost. I'm not pulling these numbers out of thin air, they are published by Blower Drive Service following decades of engineering boost systems....
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/techcharts.php

All I'm saying is that if you build the motor at 9.0 now, to run naturally aspirated, you will realistically be limiting yourself to 6 psi of boost later. Life is tough, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 09-02-2009, 02:38 PM
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Thanks for the info. I guess then when I'm reading about these supercharged engines pushing 21 lbs of boost they must be running race gas. I certainly don't want to do that everyday. I guess then if I wanted to just put together a good solid engine combo for pump gas I could do the following:

347 stroker with 8:1
AFR 185 heads with CNC porting and 2.05/1.60 valves
Victor Jr. intake and 750 cfm blow through Holley
centrifugal supercharger with 8 psi boost

Does this sound good? Another option for the heads is to go with the AFR 225 heads unported and later port them if I step up to a 427 stroker. What do you think of that? Will the AFR 225 heads bolt up to both motors (302 and 351W)? Can I use my sbf Victor Jr. intake with these heads?

I guess I could also get some info from these companies themselves when I'm ready to buy.

Your thoughts are appreciated,
Mike
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:26 PM
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Id just put the money into the 351, the block is stronger to start with, much better platform for a blown motor.

A N/A 347 should easily make 400+ hp and 450-470 lb/ft of torque. Add the super charger and your into the 550 hp range, which is close to the limit on a 302 block.

JMO
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FmrStrtracer
Id just put the money into the 351, the block is stronger to start with, much better platform for a blown motor.

A N/A 347 should easily make 400+ hp and 450-470 lb/ft of torque. Add the super charger and your into the 550 hp range, which is close to the limit on a 302 block.

JMO
I agree. And there's also going to be a modest limit as to the integrity of a production 351 block when you start adding soup. (Just a reference back to the 50's when we used to talk about "souping up" the motor).

If I were in your shoes, I'd begin selling off all my 302 stuff and bite the bullet, driving the car as is until I could build my dream motor. To me, it makes little sense to pour money into a 302 at this point. It's just money that could go toward a REAL motor a little later.

I always enjoy researching parts and combinations for engine builds and this one is particularly interesting. I would expect you to do your own research, but if I were looking for a bulletproof block to begin a 427 street/strip project, I might begin with this block.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=2492
Jegs sells this block for $1850.
I like the fact that you can begin with a 4.125" bore. The larger the bore, the better the heads will flow because of reduced shrouding at the intake valve against the cylinder wall. If you'll notice the details of head flow numbers published by head manufacturers, you'll see that in most cases, they'll use the largest bore pipe that they think they can get away with in their specs. I know of one manufacturer who uses a 4.200" pipe to flow SBC heads. Now, I have to ask you, when's the last time you saw a 4.200" bore on a SBC production block?

Anyway, I'm getting off topic. I'd bore the block to 4.125", install a steel 4.000" crank and have myself a dandy 427. On the SBC siamezed bores, the cylinder heads must be drilled to relieve super-heated water at the junction of the bores in the water jacket. I don't know if that will be necessary with the Ford block design, but I'd be finding out. The block is bottom side up in the photo link I provided, so I can't see of there are steam holes in the block deck or not.

This build is interesting enough to me that I'll run a 8x8 DynoSim on it later and post the results.

See the forged Scat cranks here. 4-351C-4000-6000 for 2.750" mains and 6.000"rod length with 2.100" rod pins.

4-351C-4000-6125 for 2.750" mains and 6.125" rods with 2.100" pins.

4-351C-4000-6200 for 2.750" mains and 6.200" rods with 2.100" pins.
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/scf-f4340light.html

I was just figuring what it would take to get to 8.00:1 with a 427 short block and 72cc AFR-225 heads. The pistons will need a 45cc dish, so call up some of the piston manufacturers and get a handle on this, find out what's available for use with a 4.000" crank and 6.000" or 6.125" or 6.200" rods in a 9.200" block. I'd go to Arias, CP, Keith Black, BME, JE, Lunati, Mahle, Manley, Ross, SRP and Wiseco.
http://www.roadsters.com/engines/#Pistons

Last edited by techinspector1; 09-02-2009 at 11:00 PM.
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