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Old 02-10-2007, 09:30 PM
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Scarebird front brakes

I was looking for pictures of the front bread disk bracket from Scarebird for 68-72 Chevelle. I'm interested in making my own brackets because if it's successful I would be converting 3-4 Chevelles.

I was also would like to know what you thought of the performance of the product and any other tid bits that you found or know.

Thanks

John

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Old 02-10-2007, 10:09 PM
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I can't help you with pics of brackets....
but, A friend of mine just got one of their kits for a 67 mustang. I thought the bracket was kind of thin for what it was expected to do. Most brakes that use GM standard calipers use 3/8 thick steel to make the brackets.

Scarebird used 1/4" on the Mustang brake bracket and I'm not 100% sure I like the engineering.

The hardware that they sent was ok, but I think I'd get the list and buy my own stuff, that way I would not get stuff from various countries that are not in the US.

There is an unresolved issue with a spacer and the position of the caliper as it relates to the rotor. A call was put in to scarebird and some pics of the problem were emailed to them, we'll see what happens. It has been only a few days, so at this point it is a slight issue that may resolve itself with different parts.


Copying Brackets:

Why don't you just buy the 3 or 4 sets of brackets? I think Scarebird sells them outright. Maybe he'd give you a break on that many. I know that it would seem easy to copy the engineering that scarebird put into their product, but from my way of thinking, you are taking business away from a company that invested in all of the research and tooling to produce those parts.

Sorry, I don't approve of splashing parts that a small company makes. I worked for a manufacturer for years and to see someone profit by copying our work was VERY wrong in our opinion. The cost of design and setting up production is amortised into the cost of the parts sold. If someone gets the design for free then that money is lost. It is like working for free.

That's my opinion on copying brackets.

Later, mikey
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:33 PM
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I will not be making any profit off these brackets because they are going onto my own cars.

Quote:
Scarebird used 1/4" on the Mustang brake bracket and I'm not 100% sure I like the engineering.
Well I agree with that they seem lighter than what they should be. And I'm not confident in the research and development that went into the product. From all the people that I have read posts that have the product say that it works well, but there is the continuing theme of them being light. And that right there is the reason to produce my own. I don't see me making my own brackets taking bussiness away from them becuase they are not provide the service I want.

My intent was not to copy the bracket exactly. I just want to see any brackets (ford, chevy, dodge or anything) so it so I don't have to start from sratch. Just like building a house if we couldn't look at a house down the street with a roof and say "thats a good idea we should put a roof on our 4 walls" there would be a lot of people with out roofs.

I'm not going to make profit, but I am going to make the best bracket possiable.

Thanks

John
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:50 PM
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I have a pair, that I bought from Scarebird for my 62....Due to my job situation....and being lazy, I have not installed them yet, but plan to soon. I too, thought that they looked flimsey, but have been assured bt a couple of people that have installed them on their cars, that they are fine. They look like a high quality metal that they are made from.
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Old 02-11-2007, 04:32 PM
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Thanks Poncho I hear that from almost everyone. And it kinda makes me worry because I like to stop.


Thanks

John
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectjohn

I will not be making any profit off these brackets because they are going onto my own cars.

And neither is scarebird after his doing all the design work.

Figure it out on your own and then you can justifyably feel proud of your work.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:21 PM
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I do not want to steal the design! I just want to look at any bracket.

John

Last edited by projectjohn; 02-11-2007 at 06:25 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-11-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectjohn
I do not want to steal the design! I just want to look at any bracket.

John

I guess that depends on the defintion of the word "IS". pf Bill Clinton
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Old 02-11-2007, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectjohn
I do not want to steal the design! I just want to look at any bracket.

John
Because the nature of this site is to share, I'll share what I have learned about doing brake bracket engineering.

Get a rotor. Raybestos has an illustrated buyers guide with hub, step, diameter and offset dimensions. You may find that useful to find a rotor that will fit. Make sure that the new wheel mounting position is not too different from the wheel mounting position of the drum hub. Steering can get a little weird and fitting your old wheels back on may be a problem if the new offset is too great. Hopefully you won't need to make any spacers to position the new rotor. Sometimes the hub depth on a disc is less than a drum hub.



Mount the rotor on your spindle. Make sure the bearings are a slip fit on the spindle. Timken has a catalog that lists tapered roller bearings by dimension. You may need that for conversion bearings. (I bought mine for 25.00 at motion industries.)
Maybe you can fit a standard Chevelle rotor/ bearing set on that spindle, I don't know. CR has a website that lists dust seals by dimension also. Get familiar with those.

You can always go to Coleman racing or Wilwood and get a 2 piece hat and rotor to fit your drum hub. That lets you use your old hub, bearings and seals and pick your offset. The hats are available from about 1/2" offset to 3" or so.

Get a caliper. I'd use a stocker, they work well. Put it on the rotor with the bleeder port in the caliper so it is at 12 oclock. (take the piston out so you can verify the actual position of the port. the bleeder outlet position can be deceiving. Or just measure an original with an inclinometer) The caliper when mounted needs to be pulled up to the outer rotor surface so the pad is just touching.

Now get some steel and start bridging between mounting holes with it. ( I'd use 3/8 or 1/2", but I am one of those guys who can overbuild a bulldozer) The clearance between the caliper housing and the bracket should be no more than .015 or so to start. Because you are using mild steel it will grow with time. I make brackets like that with some plywood first, then use the wood as a template. I call that "connecting the dots"

You can also make the brackets out of aluminum, I'd go with 1/2" or thicker.
The forged steel brackets like you get from speedway are about 3/8" in the mounting areas. I'm using that as an engineering baseline.

Make sure that when you position your caliper bracket, the small end of your slider bolts are just flush with the caliper, otherwise when the outer pad wears out the pin will be loaded excessively and break. ( Yes I HAVE seen it happen.)

Keep everything parallel and make sure that your load bearing surfaces are smooth. Chamfer your bolt holes and use grade 8 hardware. I'd be inclined to safety wire all caliper to spindle mounting brackets or use red locktite.

If you think that is alot of work then maybe you can appreciate what it takes to engineer a simple thing like a brake conversion kit.

I am doing all of that on one of the projects I'm working on because no one makes a brake kit for a 67 Imperial.

If you go to the websites of many of the aftermarket brake suppliers you can see their brackets.

Scarebird has a set of brackets for that car with a list of all that you will need for 105.00 per pair.

Hope this helps,

Mikey
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Last edited by powerrodsmike; 02-11-2007 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:30 AM
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That great. Just what I was looking for. Thanks for the help.

John
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:11 PM
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Needless to say, we are not thrilled by the idea of somebody copying our design. Not only is it pretty much outright theft, if you screw up somewhere, your decedents may sue us...

We went thru several evolutions and much engineering legwork to arrive at our current solution. The nuts welded in a special order to fit the calipers, as they are a goofy diameter/pitch. The spacers and upper bolt are also custom pieces. As far as the material thickness goes, many companies use 3/8, which way overboard and shows us that they did not do the math. The factory Chevelle disc unit was 1/4", and not in the same plane thoughout. The drum plate is only 12 gauge hot-rolled steel. We did the engineering calculations (we being myself and my Purdue Mechanical Engineer father) and found 1/4 inch much more than adequate.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:44 PM
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I'm sorry for mentioning your name in my posts. I should have asked for info for adapting newer style brakes to an older car. An idea that has been around since the birth of hotrodding. If It is causing a problem I can ask to have this thread deleted.

I'm sure that the the math is all correct. I will have to sit down and figure out the forces myself and maybe I will be talking to you about buying a couple of sets. I'm just not sold on your design yet. I'm sorry that I'm a very stubborn person.

Thanks for your reply.

John
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:04 PM
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Go Purdue.!!!!!!
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