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Old 06-30-2003, 04:04 PM
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Sealer or polyester primer first?

After completing the body work on my 41 Ford should I seal the whole car with DP90 then spray with high build polyester primer and prep? Or should I spray the polyester primer first, sand then seal? I was thinking seal first to protect the body then spray with polyester so that I can sand the surface and still keep the steel protected. What do you guys think?

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Old 06-30-2003, 04:09 PM
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Prime first. The sealer is intened to be used just before the color coats to protect the final finish from bleed thru of bondo, old pint, body solder flux, etc., that might discolor the paint from underneath. It isn't intended to be a special protection for the metal.
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Old 06-30-2003, 04:20 PM
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Willy is right,
sealer is just what it says, think of it as a sheet of plastic between the primer and the paint. hth.

Troy
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:47 AM
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Here's an outline of the basic restoration process I learned:
Note: Make sure each step is done right and complete before going to the next.

1) Clean the entire car with plain old dish soap and water to remove all dirt, grim, polishes, etc... as possible. Then wipe it down with a wax and grease remover. This is done to prevent any chemicals that may be on the surface, from getting ground into the metal which can cause problems down the road.

2) Do the metal work. Repair all rust, and dents. Cut out any rust areas and weld in patches as needed. Then hammer, dolly, and file all dents and imperfections to as close to perfect as possible. You don't want to use anymore filler than is needed down the road.

3) Strip the entire car in sections to bare metal and make sure the body is as straight as possible and rust free. You'll want to apply a primer or rust prevention product fairly quickly after stripping to prevent flash rust. Correct any newly discovered issues.

4) Once you have the metal work all done, its time to strip the panels to bare metal and apply Epoxy Primer. The Epoxy is for corrosion protection. Some manufacturers recommend metal prep products also. Read their tech sheets.

5) After applying Epoxy, its time to apply Body Filler (bondo) to all areas you could not get perfect. Some guys apply a thin coat to the entire car to get a super level finish. Note: body filler should never be more than 1/4" thick. If it is, you didn't hammer and dolly enough. Once applied, block sand the entire car to get it as level as possible. Repeat as needed.

6) After the body filler (bondo) work is the best it can be, go over that with a polyester primer and block that. This also is to level the panels even finer.

7) Next apply a primer surfacer and block sand to fill any fine scratches. Get it as best you can with the final grit sand paper prior to paint.

8) Apply a coat or two of Sealer to seal the porous primer in step 7, and to get a uniform color base for the paint.

9th) Apply base coat.

10) Apply Clear Coat.

11) Color sand and buff if desired.

Hope this outline helps.
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Old 06-15-2016, 03:13 PM
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I use SPI epoxy first. I prep with SPI's water based wiper, which neutralizes any rust.

The epoxy offers the best adhesion...seals moisture away from the metal... excellent adhesion to from body filler to the epoxy paint. Then within the time window, I add Marhyde Ultimate Primer (polyester)... and a guide coat for blocking.

After blocking, I use Fiberglass Evercoat soft glazing putty. Then re-block the glazed areas.

Finally I over-reduce the epoxy per SPI instructions, and use it as a sealer before paint!

Zero issues to date!
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Old 06-15-2016, 06:33 PM
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When using DP90 as both a DTM epoxy primer and also as a primer-sealer, the process is 2-3 coats over bare steel with no reducer then dry and sand.

Then apply body fillers and glazing putty as desired. Apply polyester primer. Sand. Apply DP90 with DT reducer added (primer-sealer) then apply color coats "wet-on-wet".

Not a lot of shops use DP as sealer. Usually its a urethane primer-surfacer that can be mixed as a sealer also.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:27 AM
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Dp epoxy is a big waste of money ever since they stopped making Dp 40.
SPI epoxy is THE best epoxy in my opinion. one reason that makes it so good is it sands well unlike most epoxies. another reason I like it so much is I don't need any other primers or sealers just spray two coats on your bare metal, Do your filler work (properly) and spray two more coats over that. block and a finale two coats blocked to 400 -600 and ready for paint.
For the DIY's that may need more filling qualities in a primer or quick curing (3-6) SPI also has a 2k Primer that is a very good quality to spray over the filler work but after all that is done use two coats of epoxy to finish it all off and have something nice for the paint to stick too. I totally trust SPI products above ALL others and I've used a few in my 40 yrs in the biz.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:19 AM
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epoxy first for metal protection . then filler work . epoxy again then poly high build. 1 hr before color reduced coat of epoxy for sealer.
dplf is not the same as the dp epoxy .
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:38 AM
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We got sucked into an ancient thread. Woops!
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:41 AM
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I noticed that too but still even if it was written yesterday theres good info.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
epoxy first for metal protection . then filler work . epoxy again then poly high build. 1 hr before color reduced coat of epoxy for sealer.
dplf is not the same as the dp epoxy .
True enough...also just because it says epoxy primer on the can don't mean its good stuff and you wont have problems. Theres good ones and not so good ones
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
We got sucked into an ancient thread. Woops!
I used to hi-light this when an old thread would emerge but thought about it and came to the conclusion that bringing up old threads shouldn't be a negative thing. If there is new info to add, why not re-up a thread, regardless of its age? What should be the time limit, if any, on proper thread etiquette?
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:39 AM
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FYI, it is (at least was when I bought my last batch if it) illegal to use epoxy paint as a sealer in the People's Repulik of Kalifornia. It is (was?) only legal to use as a primer on bare metal. In addition, it is (was?) illegal to sell it in gallon cans. We could buy 4 quarts but couldn't by a gallon. They may have reformulated it into some useless form that CARB would approve by now but that was my last experience at my local paint supplier. No problem, I just mail-order it thru ebaY.
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Old 06-18-2016, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com View Post
I used to hi-light this when an old thread would emerge but thought about it and came to the conclusion that bringing up old threads shouldn't be a negative thing. If there is new info to add, why not re-up a thread, regardless of its age? What should be the time limit, if any, on proper thread etiquette?
I agree, and will go one further. Some of these old threads are very important questions that are asked a lot and should stay so people can find them without doing a search.
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Old 06-18-2016, 05:37 AM
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Nowhere else have I seen this opinion about old threads, nor have I encountered such blatant anti PPG sentiment. The new comment seemed better suited to a new instructional thread rather than applicable to this question from 13 years ago. Products and procedures do change over time, as do suggestions from sales representatives. Something else I never understood is why some call epoxy primer "sealer". I do know it can be used as one but that is a confusing usage of terms.
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