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Old 08-27-2005, 06:35 AM
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Serpentine swap to sbc

Not much on this topic (that I've found) but, what would be a good doner car?I've read somewhere else that someone used an 88-92 F-body set up w/alt.and ps.pump. Wanted to know if anybody else took this route.Also (I guess) that in this swap , you have to get a reverse water pump?What about the flex fan? , can you just turn it around? I am hoping I can do this on a "junkyard" budget cause the March pulley set up is a little pricey.

Thanks ,Ant

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Old 08-27-2005, 07:17 AM
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I got mine from a 1992 camaro with a 305. You have to be certain that you don`t get one from a vette or any car with a TPI, as the arrangement was different. I assume you don`t plan on using the smog pump, so you`ll have to see if they have a belt without the pump. a non slotted water pump pulley is reverse rotation, the slotted pulley is standard rotation. You can get a clutch fan unit for reverse rotation as this is what chevy trucks came with that had serpentine systems, you can get the blades from a donor vehicle. I do not recommend the use of a flex fan, not only do they eat up to 10 horses or more and cause the engine to drag to overcome it, the constant scream they make is annoying after time, and since it`s a solid connection they don`t slip, which isn`t real safe, and lastly they cause more fuel consumption. a thermal clutch unit only operates when needed, when not needed it freewheels so it`s not eating up power. Lastly, I don`t know what vehicle you plan to install it on, but the power steering lines are different, GM swapped over from standard to metric in the early 80`s, they also started using O rings, so if your steering box is earlier than 81, you`ll have to have adapters, if it`s a 81 or later then it`s a bolt in.
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:01 AM
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Thanks DV. Its going in an 84 cutlass w/400 sbc.No Smog pump, just P.S. and Alt.- Did not know about the flex fan robbing h.p.-it is a little annoying. I believe the p.s. lines are metric ,since most of this car is.As far as the clutch fan , what type of chevy truck (year)or is it any w/serp. set up ,like you said.?The same fan from the camaro is no good? Why get a set of different blades off doner car? My guess is ,they are to tall?Sorry for all the questions but I am really into this swap cause I allready threw the alt.belt once under heavy rpms , and everything is perfectly lined up w/proper belt sizes and tight. It tends to "bounce" when you goose it.
THX.
Ant.
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:11 AM
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Since you don`t plan to run A/C, the belt will have to be shorter. In your case I wouldn`t go with the serpentine, I would get the Dayco heavy duty alternator belt, I used to have the part number but I don`t anymore. They cost around $22 a pop and they are alot thicker than the stocker, I used them many times and to 7000 RPM and never threw it off. If you used a serpentine belt system it wouldn`t look right, since half the engine would have the brackets and the other wouldn`t, since one side supports the A/C compressor. by going with the heavy duty belt, you`ll save cash since you won`t have to buy the serpentine system and do all the work, you won`t have to swap water pumps or worry about reverse rotation fans. I would still get a clutch fan, but make sure you get one thats a heavy duty thermal unit. Also make sure you have the proper shroud, the cutlass V8 Shroud works nicely. I have a 86 cutlass with a 350 chevy, it`s the same system I used. My car will soon be parked and robbed of parts, as the rust monster has gotten it, the time it spent in the north by the previous owner wasn`t good for it.
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:27 AM
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Once again ,thx DV. I will look into the Dayco belt. As far as the clutch fan goes , I have the V8 shroud and it cools well w/the flex ,but I don't like the unwanted power loss and the screaming is bad. A heavy duty thermal unit off what car since I wont be looking for serp. unit now? Any ?
Probably best to get a new one.Sorry to here about your 86. The junkyard by me gets about 2 a month and they ain't worth diddly
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Since you don`t plan to run A/C, the belt will have to be shorter. In your case I wouldn`t go with the serpentine, ...
I my opinion, the most cost effective factory serpentine system would be found an early 90's GM pickup, Suburban, etc. Vans would also be good donors. TBI belt systems would work well with a carb, but will not work with TPI systems. You could also use the clutch fan with the reverse style pump from the truck or van.

But I would have to agree with DV if do not run AC. My 94' Suburban came without a smog pump, but AC, PS, and Alt. Look at the following belt routing diagram.



The diagram is wrong, it should read "With A/C" at the dashed line. Without AC, I cannot picture how you could make any factory serpentine belt system work, unless you installed a AC delete pulley, which are available.

Ed www.edgesz28.com
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:47 AM
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Yes , unfort. I don't have a/c so I'm bummin' . Maybe some new V-pulleys then w/Thick a*s belts. Underdrive anyone? Thank you for all replies.
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:48 AM
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I robbed some pulleys off an '86 GMC van. It's not a true serpentine setup but the water pump, alternator and crank pulleys were all I needed. The p.s. pump belt never jumped ship on me. It was just a pulley swap on my 400. The alt. bracket is from Alan Grove components.

Here's a couple of pictures.





Larry
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:52 AM
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i gotta serpentine set off of a 93 c1500 an it had a/c, do any of u know how to remove it an still make beltz follow order? i've already removed the air pump, so now im jus runnin an alt., p/s, fan, crank, an r-12..........
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:55 AM
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Basicly , thats what I want to do. A simple conversion like yours coldknock. But how is the ps pump running? still on a V? if so ,did you just sandwich the crank pulley with the serp.and 1 single groove?

p.s. nice alt. brackets
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72donk
i gotta serpentine set off of a 93 c1500 an it had a/c, do any of u know how to remove it an still make beltz follow order? i've already removed the air pump, so now im jus runnin an alt., p/s, fan, crank, an r-12..........
To keep it a single belt serpentine system, you will need to install an AC delete pulley. Click here to see one on Ebay for $65.00-$75.00.

Below is a picture of the entire GM kit #NAL-12497697 available from Summit. The AC delete pulley is pictured between the belt and water pump.


If you do not want AC but retain PS and Alt, your best bet is to set up a system like Coldknock did.

One more thing, if you go to a junk yard to get a TBI serpentine system, be sure you bring a PS pump pulley puller. You CANNOT get the bracket off the engine without first removing the pulley and PS pump, see the bolts hidden behind the pulley below:



Ed
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slant3
Basicly , thats what I want to do. A simple conversion like yours coldknock. But how is the ps pump running? still on a V? if so ,did you just sandwich the crank pulley with the serp.and 1 single groove?

p.s. nice alt. brackets
The crank pulley has p.s. pump and a.c. comp. v-belt grooves behind the ribbed belt. All I did was swap the pulleys and put and end to belts jumping. $10 at the pull-a-part and a little elbow grease.

Larry
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:19 AM
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I'll be on the lookout for an 86 GMC van. DO you think there are any similar years as close to the 86' setup , just to expand the option of doners. Very cool info,Thank you.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:04 PM
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I got the exact same set-up on my truck and got all 3 pulleys from a 1986 Chevy truck. Never had a problem throwing the power steering belt but would throw the alternator belt regularly. Now the the alternator being on a serpentine and the power steering being a v-belt, the alternator belt stays on and still keeps the alternator charging at lower rpm's for my electric fan setup. The total cost was right at $40 ($20 for pulleys and $20 for belt).
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