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Old 04-16-2004, 07:36 AM
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Shaving Drip Rails

I have the excess cut off and have just open seams right now. ALong the doors is pretty easy, they just meet up. The front of the cab is a little different. The top goes farther than the windshield frame, should i cut off the extra on top, or bend it over and weld over the top of that? I am a little concerned when i grind down on the sides, i am not sure the weld is strong enough. Can someone tell me how to test for proper strength of my ground welds? I really am worried about in 3 years somthing seperated and a ruined paint job with cracks popping out due to some crappy welding. I am at the point to finish this stuff, so any help is appreciated!!!

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Old 04-16-2004, 07:43 AM
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Way too little information. What kind of pickup? Can you post some pictures?
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Old 04-16-2004, 07:45 AM
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70 chevy c10 and yeah if it will get me good advice i can post some pictures around 1.15ish today
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Old 04-19-2004, 06:37 AM
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Here are some pictures....

I am in three stages, welded but not ground, welded and ground, Cut and Clueless where to go now. I didnt know if i should lay the little bit of excess from the cab down and lap weld or do some more trimming and have a little trickier but most likely better butt weld? Also i have been discussing this with Willys and I have discovered I need but have not been using shielding gas. The acid core stuff was just eating my metal alive. I switched over to the solid steel i believe it is (doesnt say on the roll but is what is "supposed" to be used for sheetmetal) I have tested my welds by beating them from every angle i can, then when i grind any holes (i.e. edges up to welds and wherever welds came off i pry and make sure the welds dont give loose.) So my questions are:

What do i do about these welds with the non-acid core/non shielding gas. Trash them all or keep them since they are taking the beating with a smile

What is the next step on the front of the cab,

Am I even going about all this shaving business right?

Thanks guys
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Old 04-19-2004, 08:29 AM
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Not clear enough to see.
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Old 04-19-2004, 08:44 AM
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first off .... GET SHEILDING GAS .... acide core is a bad idea and so is welding w/o sheilding gas ... both make for bad welds ... neither has a use in automobiles

ive got the same truck, so i know what ur asking realy .... the way the roof panel is bucktooth over the windsheild frame .... that 3/8" overhang its built with that wont allow you to just lay a bead after the front gutter is gone

.... its nice how the sides meet up, but up front youll have to make some piecuts in the metal so you can basicly push the front edge downwards and weld it in place ....

cut a THIN THIN THIN slice in the metal using the thinest cutting wheel u can buy ... and make the cut about 6 inches long starting at the gutter and heading towards the tailgate , and do them about 8 inches apart, all the way across the front, a pillar to a pillar

push the first section downward till it gets rid of the "overhang" and tackweld it on the corners

visualy check from all angles that its not to rounded upwards .... if it looks to round, like it doesnt seam to match the angle of the a pillar, break the welds free and push it down farther and retack ....

after the one side looks good, do the OTHER endpiece to match, again ... check it to have the proper shape .....

after the ends look good ..... work side to side and lower each piece the same amount .... only tackwelding the corners to hold it .

once all are lowered, check the it looks proper ... all "panels" are the same height, nothing farther back on the roof is kinked and all panels meet properly and neatly , at this point, trimm off any excess overlap the panels have .... a small amount of overlap will make ur welding easier though

if everything fits ...... using SHEILDING GAS start welding ....

do 1/2 inch beads using air to cool each panel after each welld, do the middle of each piecut, the the middle of the front of each pannel ...... then tie down the front and rear corners of each piecut, cool each weld right after u do it ... then do right across the front of each piecut (side to side ) and continue in a logical order, but only one weld on each section at a time .... 1/2 inch at a time

.......if that makes any sense .....

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Old 04-19-2004, 09:49 AM
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What is going to happen not using shielding gas? I was told if my welds would hold up to a beating with a hammer from every anlge i can get to then they will most likely hold. How much is shielding gas and how do i use it? I will post more pictures i tried to post multiple pictures before i left for school, but obviously it didnt upload. So now can we discuss shielding gas? What about with stick welding? I am not sure of the proper term but we have the "stick" type it just sucks, would that keep me from using shielding gas, or is there mild acid core steel wire, so i can stray away from shielding gas.
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Old 04-19-2004, 10:56 AM
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sheilding gas is used simply because the air we breath is loaded with crahp that will cause a weak weld,

just because u can beat a weld to death w/o it breakin doesnt mean it will survive 5 years of body flex. i also dont like the idea of having to beating a body panel senseless in order to check weld strength !

the sheilding gas provides the weld a "pure" enviroment, using argon, which doesnt react in any way to the heat or the electrical field created during welding, and it also slightly cools the weld, AND it allows the weld to properly penetrate the steel.

Welding without sheilding gas SHOULD be making ur attemps at welding a major pain in the ash, isnt it blowing weld all over the place and throwing a massive amout of sparks while leaving a weld that looks like aahss ?

one of the 5 foot tall bottles of argon i think cost my dad $100, so a small scuba tank size probbably wont cost u more then like $30

get a swap meet regulator for like 10 or $15 and there should be a port sticking off the back of the welder someplace that it plumbs into (the ones ive seen, on craftsman welders, are usualy brass and hang out near the bottom of the back side of the welder

stick welding is not as easy as mig, and its harder to get the quality weld ..... on sheet metal its damn near impossible to stick weld unless ur real good at it

if uve ever noticed the stuff that coats the welding rod used for stick welding, theres that brittle material on the outside of it, thats the "sheilding gas" used in that aplication ..... it burns off to create a gas and it also coats the weld in "slag" to protect the weld as it cools
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Old 04-19-2004, 12:13 PM
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so do i hold a head of argon in one hand and weld with the other? Can a regualtor be used off a oxgyen or Acetalyn tank? Could i use the same neck from our oxy-actealyn rig?
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Old 04-19-2004, 12:57 PM
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The gas comes out the tip of the torch with the wire.

If you want a good job, use gas, less work, better weld,less grinding, less warp, less pin holes, less burn through, no splatter, etc. etc.

The regulators are not the same.

Troy

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Old 04-19-2004, 01:43 PM
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Also I think you are using incorrect terms. I am not aware of any acid core wire feed wire. Acid flux is usually associated with solder and actually etches the metal so the lead/tin metal will make a chemical bond with the base metal. Flux for fusion welding serves a totally different function. It is a solid and made of earth, clay and other dry chemicals. Its main purpose is to protect the weld form exposure to oxygen. Liquid steel, or any liquid metal for that matter, has an affinity for absorbing atmospheric gasses, especially oxygen. Oxygen is the most efficient oxidizer known (thus the name!) and creates iron oxide in the weld. Although it may look stable in the short term, iron oxide is brittle and will chemically degrade over time.

The flux does it's protecting in two stages, first it generates inert gas (CO2?) when melted in the welding arc to shield the weld pool. Then the earth solids which are "glassified" in the high temperature arc solidify to form a protective crust over the cooling bead for further protection. The flux in stick welding rod and that encased in the core of a wire feed welding wire is functionally the same stuff. It is great for industrial welding work like building wrought iron fence, lawn furniture, swing sets in a production factory setting or for making engine brackets for your hot rod out of 3/16" pr 1/4" plate, but isn't good at all for precision sheet metal work. The wire is too big and requires more amperage than you can control on thin sheet metal, and the flux build up so quickly that just the time you want to 'feather' the puddle, the flux forms a big blob of glass that gets in the way.

You need a bottle of inert gas, CO2/Argon mix is good and economical, and a gas control setup for you welder which consist of a regulator that screws to the gas bottle, a hose from the bottle to the welder and other misc items depending on the brand of welder like a smaller core for your welding wand, misc. wiring harness, etc. The bottle will cost about $150 for the ~4' tall one (you can get smaller ones but that size isn the most economical in my opinion for initial cost, refill time, etc.). the installation kit will very by welder but I recall my Lincoln set costing around $50 @ Harbor Freight.
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Old 04-19-2004, 02:05 PM
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what a day nothing seems to go my way....I just went to town to look at setups. What i discovered is you have to have an actual MIG welder to do mig welding, what an idea My welder is a harbor freight MIG(brand) but not a mig welder by nature. So basically i am stuck with buying a new welder and bottle. I have to scrap everything i have done. Thanks for helping an idiot sort things out! Maybe next week i can revive this thread and talk about shaving my drip rails!!!
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Old 04-19-2004, 02:51 PM
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Don't feel too bad.. My dad did most of his body work with an arc welder, all the way from before I was born to probably up till pretty near when I graduated high school when he finally got a low-buck MIG. Mostly he was working with pre-war cars, though, where you have the heavier gage steel.
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Old 04-19-2004, 03:05 PM
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Well it just pisses me off i did all that work and welding and no wi have to scrap it all, I wanted to finish my truck by graduation and that definetly isnt happening now, but i still need to finish absolutly no longer that 2.5 months from now. My dad will be gone for the rest of the summer until I leave for College, so that just really puts a damper on things, So after I realized that all my welding was crap I got a big bowl of Ice Cream and sulked while looking for a new welder (which I cant afford)
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Old 04-19-2004, 03:12 PM
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Buck up, it's just part of your education!
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