Sheet Metal Brake, can it bend this? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Garage - Tools
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 02:08 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: Rear End Disassembly
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: chicago, IL
Age: 28
Posts: 441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sheet Metal Brake, can it bend this?

I'm interested in getting a sheet metal brake for a new project for my business. I've only used a box and pan brake once before. So as of now I'm wondering, what is the difference between a box and pan and a regular brake, and what are the benefits/restrictions of each?

Here is a cross sectional drawing of the bends I would like to make (with 16 gague sheet metal, 50" long, although I probably could do 2 25" pieces instead). #1 is what I would prefer to make, and #2 is what I would make if it's impossible to make #1. So, any suggestions on different machines, whether or not my bends are possible, and whether a box and pan or a regular brake would be better for my application would be appreciated.


    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 02:42 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
The only difference that I know of between a "brake" and a "box and pan" brake is that the box and pan brake has removeable sections or "fingers" on the clamp so you can bend up a flange inbetween and perpendicular to 2 previously bent flanges .This is useful for making ...boxes and pans.

There is also a press brake, which has a upper die with a ground angle that presses into a matching die on the bottom..

You could make the parts you drew with any of those types of brake, but the last bend would be a little harder to deal with with a press brake.

You will have to bend the 2 outer bends, then the middle bend, and probably flex the bend that returns in towards the part to get it under the fingers so you could make the last bend.

That's how I'd do it.

I have a 4' finger brake that does up to 18 g, I am glad it is a finger brake, and not a press or regular brake as it it very versatile.

16g requires a bigger brake than most places sell, so make sure you are not overtaxing your brakes capabilities.


Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 04:58 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,909
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
16g requires a bigger brake than most places sell, so make sure you are not overtaxing your brakes capabilities.Later, mikey

Be warned several of the brakes on the market that claim to handle 16 ga will NOT! Harbor Freight has a cheapie that claims 16 ga capability but will barely handle 18 ga.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 05:34 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Oldred makes a good point, I have an old Enco, made in '88 rated at 18 g, it does a good job with 18G (admittedly, I've never bent a 48" peice, most of my stuff is 30 or 32"), but I can only do 16G in short lengths.

A friend of mine bought the HF one rated for 18G a couple of years ago and it was cheesy compared to mine.

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 07:00 PM
F&J F&J is offline
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 32 Ford cabriolet conversion/windshield
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Connecticut
Age: 62
Posts: 1,571
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Are you guys sure that a brake can do those bends?

Yes, It's late, and I am staring at the sketches and wondering if there is room enough to do the final bends.

Here's one I did from my gallery, and I can't even figure out how I got as far as I did



EDIT; That 50" will be a big problem as 48" is the max when they sell a 48. Lord knows how much extra $ to go to the next size to do 50"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:39 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
That's pretty good, F&J

A little bit of squeezing and it'll be all squared up..

I just went and bent a couple short samples up, the order in which you do your bends, and how much you can push the part into the fingers on the second and third bends will determine how close the bends can be without bowing the flat part of the sheet.

My first try flexed the 3" leg some, a shoe in the bottom of the channel before bending, under the fingers would cure that, or just a bit squeezing after the bends were done would do it.

My second try, I tried bending both end returns, then doing the middle bends, but I couldn't get the last bend without flexing the 2" leg too much.

A brake that will do 16 G might have bigger fingers, so the part may not be able to be pushed in that far to do the 2 return part, (top picture), but probably the part with one return. I removed the big angle iron extension on my brake's apron, it allows me to get in alot closer.

A press brake would probably do the job , but you'd still have to do a bit of tweaking after all the bends were done unless you had an offset die set for it.....$$$

I got pics I'll put up at home in a bit.

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 09:34 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I took a couple of fingers out of the brake to show the sequence. See how the bottom of the channel bows a little bit? Most of it sprang back, just a little handwork got it straight.

A bigger brake will have bigger fingers, so a little more handwork might be needed, or leave off the last return flange.




Later, mikey
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0323.JPG
Views:	591
Size:	110.8 KB
ID:	33020   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0325.JPG
Views:	539
Size:	111.4 KB
ID:	33021   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0326.JPG
Views:	437
Size:	103.2 KB
ID:	33022   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0327.JPG
Views:	422
Size:	98.1 KB
ID:	33023   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0319.JPG
Views:	435
Size:	92.2 KB
ID:	33024  

__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example

Last edited by powerrodsmike; 10-01-2008 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: Rear End Disassembly
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: chicago, IL
Age: 28
Posts: 441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, thanks guys for the advice. First off, F&J, that is a gorgeous bend I must say, and I'm kind of wondering myself how you did that.

Mikey, thanks for going out of your way to look into this bending. I wonder how tough it would be to do this with a thicker gage and longer material. I went ahead and took some scrap thin metal to a buddies brew shop and tried bending my pattern. I also got it to work, but it took some manipulation of the steel, something which couldn't have been done with thicker, longer metal.

I contacted grizzly and they had a tech bend the pattern for me, he told me of one machine that would work. My question was, why can't the larger machine do it, but the smaller one can? I guess maybe I need to ask more specific questions.

So is there any illustrated schematic of a brake which details specific measurements and the terminology behind those measurements? I think if I had better pictures with various openings/depths marked, I could ask companies for those specs which I would need for my project.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:25 PM
F&J F&J is offline
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 32 Ford cabriolet conversion/windshield
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Connecticut
Age: 62
Posts: 1,571
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I am not up on the terminology when the brake company lists the specs & dimensions. I went through that guessing when I bought my Tennsmith 48" 16ga on a ebay BIN. I did not have much time to diddle because the price was decent and it had just been listed (about a hour drive away).


You should get some steel scrap of the thickness & length to try on a friends brake. You can't believe what kind of force you need for 18ga at maybe 40 wide. You really need two people IMO for long stuff. I can't imagine bending 16ga @ 48" on mine...I doubt it could do it....and I know it could not be done on mine without a helper on the other handle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2008, 03:11 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: Rear End Disassembly
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: chicago, IL
Age: 28
Posts: 441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i think im going to go with one from Woodward Fab. Model #WFBP4816, http://www.woodwardfab.com/sheet_met...ding_tools.htm

I think it will work out for my ideas. My next goal is to determine how to seal this piece from rain. I will be going to glass shops and looking at their weatherstripping. Thanks guys for all of your expertise, its real great as a novice to get a helping hand!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2008, 09:38 PM
grouch's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to document your project
Last journal entry: 1949 Olds -- Rotisserie, pt. 9
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
Posts: 1,143
Wiki Edits: 2

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
I took a couple of fingers out of the brake to show the sequence.
[...]

Later, mikey
Whose fingers? You must've wiped up the evidence; I don't see any blood in the pictures.

Doesn't anybody remember C-clamps and ball peen hammers? A couple of chunks of 2" square tubing and some band-aids for the blood blisters and you can knock those bends out without sacrificing whole fingers!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2008, 09:43 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
Whose fingers? You must've wiped up the evidence; I don't see any blood in the pictures.

Doesn't anybody remember C-clamps and ball peen hammers? A couple of chunks of 2" square tubing and some band-aids for the blood blisters and you can knock those bends out without sacrificing whole fingers!

I said "of" not "on".....see how 1 letter can change the perspective of everything..



The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.



Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2008, 01:57 PM
KA67_72's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Knoxville, Tn
Posts: 299
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I'm also looking for a brake. It's for my day job, but unlike usual, I've been given a very limited budget. We need to bend up to .125" thick aluminum. I'm thinking I need a 12ga. brake. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks,
Kevin
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2008, 02:43 PM
Crazy Fast on Ice's Avatar
Loose is Fast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 56
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been bending steel for 5 straight years. Up until about 4 months ago then I moved into maintenance, no more of that heavy *** lifting. Anyway I really only worked with press brakes not so much on the pan. I've ran some capable of bending 1 1/2" thick mild steel over 32" wide and smaller presses used for 11 to 24ga sheet metal work. If I could ever find a decent hydraulic press for a good price I'd buy one. I will not spend the money on a box and pan. Of course if I need something bent up I just do it after work now. I have bent some pretty difficult pieces on presses and there really isn't anything I've seen bent on a box that couldn't have been done on a press. I have done jobs on a press that you could not have done on a box though. Besides you can use a press brake for a lot more than just flat steel bending. I made a tubing bender to set in the one at work for square and round tubing, pipe, or conduit. You can also use them as an arbor press if you make a good fixture for one. I know they are expensive but I would say if someone is serious about fabrication they should hold off and invest in a press brake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2008, 03:13 PM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,005
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,141
Thanked 491 Times in 365 Posts
Here's one I built for about $150.00,I have bent 5/16 plate with it with no trouble.It is 20 tons.Air over hyd.Don't think it will bend that tight of a bend.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	001.JPG
Views:	502
Size:	194.2 KB
ID:	33305   Click image for larger version

Name:	004_00.JPG
Views:	446
Size:	196.7 KB
ID:	33306  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Garage - Tools posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Basic of Basics" Welding - How do I repair body panels? Centerline Body - Exterior 33 03-31-2014 09:45 AM
mail order source for sheet metal? 37ford4dr Body - Exterior 3 08-14-2006 07:03 AM
sheet metal questiuon cxpcman Body - Exterior 11 06-09-2006 09:47 PM
What Gauge Sheet Metal ? SCHOONER Hotrodders' Lounge 3 05-11-2006 05:44 AM
Help!! Welded sheet metal is warped fordSR Body - Exterior 3 09-29-2005 02:32 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.