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Old 12-03-2008, 04:40 PM
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Shooting metalic

Hey everyone, next step in my project of painting my work van.

I painted the rear doors today after I layed out a nice slick coat of epoxy sealer. I am using Kirker SS urethane in medium charcoal grey metalic.
Because of space issue I am doing the job in sections.
My job came out decent (some dust nibs) except for a blotchy mottled effect.

Heres what I did:
Finishline FLG3 with a 1.3 set at 23 psi with 2.5 turns out on the fluid 1/2 hour induction, no reducer. I poured the paint back in the mixing cup between coats to keep the metal from settling in the feed. No matter how much I stired there was still a dark swirl at the surface of the paint in the cup.
I stired well, did some shaking while spraying and even tryed a fog coat, but still had the blotchs, or is it called mottling? What can I do about this? Is there some kind of additive you can get to keep it uniform? I did try reducing the pressure a couple pounds and backed off on the fluid a 1/4 turn and tightened up the fan, this seemed to help a little.

chas

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Old 12-03-2008, 07:42 PM
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Anybody out there?
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:57 PM
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It sounds like you maybe spraying the base too wet. I've had that problem with the less expensive bases. I usually spray 3 medium coats and sometimes it takes more than one fog coat. Just make sure you do it the same on all of your panels or they will all be different colors, You may have a problem with getting all of the panels the same color anyway, spaying them seperately. I'm assuming your spraing base/clear if its a single stage good luck,

Mike

Sorry just reread your post. Single stage metallics are a *****

Last edited by yeepman2; 12-03-2008 at 07:59 PM. Reason: misunderstanding
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:31 PM
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OK, is there anyway to convert my SS to a BC/CC. I thought I saw some sort of "base maker" converter some where. Is this a good idea, or bs?

chas
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:46 PM
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I've never heard of that, but maybe. What kind of products are you useing?
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:05 PM
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Kirker brand
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:10 PM
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Basemaker is just DuPont's fancy way of saying reducer. Sorry but there is no way of converting SS to BC/CC. SS is a one step application it has the gloss and color all in one. Metallics are harder to spray in BC/CC but very difficult to do in single stage what I would do is spray the SS to get even metallic orientation and then spray a couple coats of clear over that. Then you can sand and buff without possibly disturbing the metallic.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:32 PM
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Thanks 70chevell

My problem is I cant get the mottling out using my ss urethane and heard that it was easier with a bc/cc to get no mottle.

chas
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:59 AM
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try reducing it a little and the metallic swirl kind of depend some time when you thin it it gos away but then again some paints don't um it dosent seem to make a different s tough but if you try thinning it and do a couple of fog coats and a sold coat and it still is int working august the psi up a bit more and make sore to whach that you don't angel the gun.that's from my exsperans hope it helps
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:39 PM
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I thought I was an OK painter until I did my first metallic. It was not very good and had to be done over.

I have heard that the Kirker metallic is best clear coated. When shooting the metallic, shoot it like a base coat; concentrate on even coverage and even metallic. Shoot it dryer and don't worry about gloss. Go ahead and do your drop coat if it helps; drop coat must be done while the last coat is still wet BTW or else it's just dry spray. Then, during the recoat window, clear it. I recommend SPI Universal Clear. Then you can cut and buff it just like base/clear.

When shooting metallic, you must hold the gun absolutely parallel to the surface or else you'll get stripes. Do 60-70% overlap. Alternate your spraying pattern and don't start/stop in the same place twice. Let if flash off good while staying inside the recoat window to avoid disturbing the metallics when shooting the clear. I turn the pressure down as low as I dare when clearing over metallics to avoid disturbing them.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:07 PM
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Do as fast eddie said, spray the color for even metallic then clear coat although I would stay with kirker clear just because you are going to have to spray the clear as a wet on wet application within the recoat window mixing brands in this situation, may not be the best, heck it may even take the same hardener. You don't want to sand the SS because you may disturb the metallic, just spray you're clear over it, or just buy basecoat . As far as air pressure some metallics like it high some like it low. If yours is alot of flake it may be better lower play with it and see. The swirl you see in the can is normal and will never go away, it's actually good because you know the metallic is not settled in the bottom of the can, you're gun will atomize it and take care of it.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70 chevelle conv
I would stay with kirker clear just because you are going to have to spray the clear as a wet on wet application within the recoat window mixing brands in this situation, may not be the best, heck it may even take the same hardener.
While there is an advantage if they use the same hardener, I have not used the Kirker clears so I can't recommend them one way or the other. I do know that one of their clears (the one with the flames on the can I think) is specifically for clearing single stage. I do know that Universal Clear is pretty "universal"; I have shot it over base and even rattlecan without a problem. And don't shoot it wet on wet; let the metallic flash off good before clearing it, but be sure to stay within the recoat window. With metallic base, letting it flash for a longer time (not too long!) will minimise problems, because the clear can upset the how the metallic lays (which is why I turn the pressure down on the clear) and promote mottling and striping, even when the base looks fine before clearing.
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:04 PM
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thanks guys! I think it will be bc/cc next time.....

As far as the clear over SS, if it is mottled the clear will not help that, correct? It has to be mottle free before clearing, correct?
If I am understanding all the info I have gathered, the advantage of bc/cc is the ease of spraying metalic in base versus SS. But mottling can still be a problem with base? just easier to get a good even metalic pattern?

Im going to try some of the suggestions on my SS, as I can not afford new paint now because I am unemployed

In fact, Barry from SPI has offered his phone number and an invitation to call him for help, and I am not even using SPI! That right there is b*t*hin' generous and has in itself sold me on future SPI use, let alone all the good feedback I am hearing.
thanks to all
chas
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:14 PM
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Sorry for missing this,
Fast Eddie D I can spray SS on dull/dry and clear over it? It wont be bumpy/pebbly? Could you explain this a little more? I have only done bc/cc one time, so I dont have a lot to go on.
thanks
chas
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:01 PM
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Metalic

The first metallic jb I ever did was mottled. It was a Chevy Blue Single stage enamel, and I had the guy throw in and extra dose of the metallic stuff.
I had a siphon feed gun, a 20 gal Sears compressor,,,,and I think I just ran a filter, and tried to regulate the air right from the tank...LOL
I think that temo and HUMIDITY has something to do with it as well.
Your air temp is not going to be the same as your surface temp.
Some of it is just practice, practice, practice.
I don't know if it'll work on an HVLP gun or not but we always but a BIG ball bearing, or a marble in the cup, and we could swirl it around between passes, and it helped keep the metalic disbursed and suspended in the paint. It REALLY helped when we were shooting some of that giant flake we used back in the 60's.
Good luck.
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