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  #16  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:19 AM
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cobalt327 cobalt327 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnym17
I have rarely seen tech guys who can find good undercover porting.
Which explains why Brezinski, et al can stay in business and afford all that advertising they do. Heck, USED 492's go for upwards of $1500!

But bowtie's will not pass for production heads, ported or not. As-cast bowties would have their asp handed to them anyway, by a good set of undercover heads, IMO.

But I digress. This is all academic (although interesting to me) until the rules are known.


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  #17  
Old 04-16-2009, 02:04 PM
barnym17 barnym17 is offline
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Now that I'm not running anymore letting little tricks out is ok,while they are not exactly secrets many locals did not know them.For instance did you know an hei with 18 volts makes great spark and allows very wide gaps?Or that a little creativity in cutting the upper control arm mounts and shortening them for proper roll center and rewelding them back in place really helps corner speed.Easily covered by putting a little salt water on the mounts after your done causing rust to hide the work.One buddy showed me a trick when limited to 8 inch tires (checked by looking at the stamping on the tire) a little sandpaper to rub the bottom of a 9 looks just like an 8.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2009, 02:06 PM
barnym17 barnym17 is offline
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Or one of my favorite's if the rule states working converter or stock sized clutch a hollow converter in a glide can be made to set and idle in low or reverse but be solidly connected in high losing about 30lbs of rotating wt.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2009, 06:48 PM
Late hopper upper Late hopper upper is offline
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rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
My comment, was based on having to use production iron heads- like the heads he mentioned- and like are required for many/most cast iron head and intake "hobby stock" or entry-level classes.

Like I said, it depends on the rules and the interpretation of them.

I would hope the OP doesn't hope to use the heads he mentioned in a class that allows ported non-production cylinder heads. In that case I still wouldn't use bowtie heads, there are better raw material out there for unlimited cast iron heads, IMO.

But the Vortec's will be better than either head he mentions or any head Chevy makes- if an as-cast production-based cast iron head is spec'ed AND the cast iron GM boat intake is deemed to be legal.

I hope this clarifies things a little.

Late hopper upper, just what are your rules you have to "abide" by?

Rule states No porting or grinding of any kind on heads,intake or exhaust. May run headers. Stock cast iron heads[no aftermarket type],cast iron intake & block,GM to GM.... Only hydrolic cams.Must idle smooth.No roller rockers.No made for racing parts.Stock type distributor,HEI ok. One carb,no double pumpers. Torque coverter min 11''. 17'' of vacuum @ 1000 rpm. Stock power steering pump,may run aftermarket pulleys & fan blade.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2009, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Late hopper upper
Rule states No porting or grinding of any kind on heads,intake or exhaust. May run headers. Stock cast iron heads[no aftermarket type],cast iron intake & block,GM to GM.... Only hydrolic cams.Must idle smooth.No roller rockers.No made for racing parts.Stock type distributor,HEI ok. One carb,no double pumpers. Torque coverter min 11''. 17'' of vacuum @ 1000 rpm. Stock power steering pump,may run aftermarket pulleys & fan blade.
Based on that, my choice will be the Vortec set-up. Again, IF the cast iron GM boat intake is a legal part. I believe any loss of CR would be more than made up by the better flow.

Actually, I see nothing there that would keep you from using the entire factory roller engine.

I would expect to see Vortec heads already being used, but you may be the first, and if this is the case- legalities aside- you will be up on power over everyone except those cheating with undercover heads.

But you will still be big $$$ ahead of the game- the Vortec set-up costs a lot less than anything you can get from Brezinski.

Using the Vortec heads/roller cam engine depends on if the iron boat intake is legal or not.
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  #21  
Old 04-17-2009, 06:38 AM
barnym17 barnym17 is offline
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With those rules, vortec heads, cast marine intake, 18 volts to the hei(use a 6 volt motorcycle battery in series to the ignition only).Also do not have the ignition on without the engine running bad things can happen(ask me how I know).Open plug gaps to .055.If you are just starting concentrate on dependable power not max power.Work on handling and driving first there is far more speed in setup than power.
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  #22  
Old 04-17-2009, 06:54 AM
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cobalt327 cobalt327 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnym17
Work on handling and driving first there is far more speed in setup than power.
How very true!

Couple weeks ago at Bristol, Jason Leffler (Busch race) ran the last like 75 laps of the race down one cylinder, and HELD 10th. place! Never got passed for position, and did pass cars that were fast but down laps.

This also points out how power can hurt you if you can't temper entry speed to gain exit speed, but that's another story in itself.

So, yeah- handling and driving is KEY for having any success.
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  #23  
Old 04-17-2009, 02:25 PM
abigassbowtie abigassbowtie is offline
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but how is a guy supposed to be competitive if he has less power and has less than good driving skills
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  #24  
Old 04-17-2009, 02:55 PM
barnym17 barnym17 is offline
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Your not gonna be till the skills come up.Thats part of the learning curve.You can have all the power in the world esp. on dirt and it will just get you in trouble till the handling and driving is up there.Typical example is 5 mph more in the corner due to handling will usually get ya 10 to 15 extra at the end of the straight even without tons of power.Look at it this way how much power does it take to go 85mph in a 3200lb car about 75 0r 100 hp? if lap average speed in this class is over 70 I'll be suprised.Our average speeds on a 3/8 high bank was around 16.70 to 17.0 seconds or about 80 mph this was in 3200 lb cars with most being over 600 hp most were drastically overpowered and you had to drive like you had an egg under the throttle.And we used modified 8 inch tires (fairly soft) rear suspensions were modified pretty much to increase forward bite. 3 links, mono leafs with lift bars, metric 4 links were common. A solid 300 horse will get ya started and go way faster than most beginers can drive em. Just enjoy the racing and stay smooth speed will come.When you can hold her wide open all the way around build more motor.
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  #25  
Old 04-19-2009, 07:30 AM
Late hopper upper Late hopper upper is offline
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Well sounds like the vortecs have it.I will start the search for the marine intake & vortec heads.Putting more voltage to the HEI had come to mind. Like some of you said reliability & some track time is what may be needed first. I'm not quite a track virgin. I have ran about a 12 enduro ''50 lap anything goes races''. These races start with 50-75 cars on a 1/4 mile.Talk about a mess.Only 10-25 usually running at the end. I have placed a 2nd & a 3rd in these.My last race i had 12 lapps left & was 1/2 lap in the lead when i TOTALED out my 73 malibue. Was too fast getting into turn 1,slid up & hit a dead on track car. Thanks for all the input guys.
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