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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 09:03 PM
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so lets just say your 11.8 compression on 87 octane is BS as everyone else knows

what would be the best way to increase the combustion chamber size. I am doing some research on unshrouding valves but I am not sure if this is something that I would be able to do. I would like a link or even a book link to some good information on doing this. How many cc's can you pick up by doing this?

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell85
so lets just say your 11.8 compression on 87 octane is BS as everyone else knows
No not everyone.



The best way to increase the combustion chamber size is to work the valve
shroud. It's not difficult at all, clean the head and apply layout fluid, or paint
it with a permanent type felt tip marker. Scribe the bore diameter on the
head deck, avoid cutting in this area at all costs. (people do cut bigger than
the bore, don't go there now)

Install a set of valves that you are willing to ruin. Use the chamber I posted
earlier as a guide. Think about how the fluid flows around the valve face into
the cylinder. I can post more pictures if needed.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell85
so lets just say your 11.8 compression on 87 octane is BS as everyone else knows

what would be the best way to increase the combustion chamber size. I am doing some research on unshrouding valves but I am not sure if this is something that I would be able to do. I would like a link or even a book link to some good information on doing this. How many cc's can you pick up by doing this?
What does any of this have to do with grooving chambers?

Will grooving chambers get you there? I don't know, that engine was before I'd experimented with grooves, I haven't run _that_ much compression with grooves, yet, and I get the feeling that they are not entirely compatible with what I was experimenting with before I ran across the grooving idea. I think that AB probably could answer that.

BTW, there have been production engines with compressions in the 12.5:1 range that ran on pump gas.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2010, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback
BTW, there have been production engines with compressions in the 12.5:1 range that ran on pump gas.
Ever since this thread was begun, I have been trying to think of the fellow's name from several years ago, who built a BBC cylinder head that used a high SCR and ran on pump gas. Just tonight, it came back to me....Jim Feuling.
http://www.biographicon.com/view/gq01v
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ild/index.html
Now, I have to wonder how Singh grooves would work on the Feuling head.....
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:01 PM
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Like I hinted before, I don't think it would... a lot of his ideas are similar to Larry Widmer's, and I believe that the effect that they are trying to achieve with their chamber designs accomplishes what it does in the opposite way that that I believe grooves do.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2010, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Ever since this thread was begun, I have been trying to think of the fellow's name from several years ago, who built a BBC cylinder head that used a high SCR and ran on pump gas. Just tonight, it came back to me....Jim Feuling.
http://www.biographicon.com/view/gq01v
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ild/index.html
Now, I have to wonder how Singh grooves would work on the Feuling head.....

Thanks for those links Tech, I had forgotten about Jim and his designs for low volume combustion chambers.

Increased dimension quench zones is essentially all your doing with the grooves anyway, I'm sure he found the perfect clearance that works with a particular fuel for his heads...not so great for Mom and Pop who get varying fuel quality throughout the year though.

Makes one wonder what you could do with a flush mounted valve in the chamber and all the volume in the piston...though its been tried and piston weight becomes excessive for performance applications not to mention durability.

Jim Fuelings accomplishments makes Mr. Singh look like Homer Simpson nailing his thumb to the wall though doesn't he!

What a career!
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2010, 01:41 AM
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that's sort of simlar to the may fireball jag heads. there was almost no volume under the intake valve and all the volume was under the exhaust valve. The production setups were all in the high 11.x to 12.5:1 compression and I believe that they considered running as high as 14:1 on pump gas
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2010, 01:56 AM
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Well all this and back to the process.

This whole quench effect,, I was under the impression that piston design has more to do with the effective gains than the head design.

Chamber design is more or less riding shotgun. There is the quench distance always constant and grooves effect it but I would think that pistons have more to do with whats going on,,,grind if you want.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10
Well all this and back to the process.

This whole quench effect,, I was under the impression that piston design has more to do with the effective gains than the head design.

Chamber design is more or less riding shotgun. There is the quench distance always constant and grooves effect it but I would think that pistons have more to do with whats going on,,,grind if you want.

Its a combined effect, the heads usually present more of a problem than the pistons though so they are worked on more. For pistons you can use flat tops and be okay, for the chamber you need good flame propagation characteristics.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck

Makes one wonder what you could do with a flush mounted valve in the chamber and all the volume in the piston...though its been tried and piston weight becomes excessive for performance applications not to mention durability.
Works well in diesels where the revs are low thus inertia of the piston stays down. Didn't work as well in Ford's old MEL engine's nor Chevy's W. Ford of England, with the Cortina, ran the chamber in the piston with good success but a vertical in-line 4 has a less complicated and lighter solution than that forced by the orientation on a V8 with a center mounted carb.

Bogie
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