And I probably should have used a smilie or two in there to let you know I was just teasin'. We're cool.

BTW, the local "classic" car lot has a super clean K-car Limo on the lot. The first thing that entered my mind when I saw it was "Why?!"

Well I hope the groove catches on. The only thing worse than a limo K car would be a limo K car with 24" wheels on it

how were those cut? and what with?

I cut the grooves with a 1/6" ball end mill and then I finish the shape with a file.

did you have the valves in when you cut?
i havent really read any of thread, so many posts, what are the purpose of those?

Most of the heads I cut the grooves with a port job so the valves are out. When somebody comes for just the grooves, I leave the valves in. If so I make sure the ports are taped up and I get everything clean when I’m finished.

I consider the two primary functions of the grooves to be a channel(s) to direct the squish flow to a desirable location in the chamber and a method of relieving end gas pressure.

Runn141, I noticed you like the S10, I had a grooved 355 in this one for a while.

is that used with a die grinder?

Yes but I use a fixture to cut the groove in a straight line, like a home made mill.

yeah that looks good, theres not a bolt i havent turned on one of them. but without a v8 i wouldnt drive em.

Just a sidenote: The idea of using shapes, lines, circles, and other methods to induce turbulence is not a new idea at all. Diesels have done it for years. An excerpt from www.thedieselpage.com :


here is a piston from a 6.5TD showing a swirl-inducing cavity in the piston



Here is a cross-section of a 6.5TD head showing the prechamber



Here is a photo showing some of the prechamber cups, all experimental in a BSFC experiment done by www.thedieselpage.com which can be viewed at http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/65fueleconomy.htm . The cups discharge ports all have slightly different profiles and some dramatic differences were found with fuel efficiency. This does not prove that Singh's grooves work, but it does lend credence to the fact that tiny, subtle changes in a combustion space can have dramatic effects on turbulence. I don't think anyone would argue that increased turbulence is a good thing, so if a slight change in a 1/8" nozzle opening can have such dramatic effects on a diesel, I would think that a 2" groove might have as much of an effect. It at least piques my interest.

Here's an example of a similar idea where the combustion chamber is in the piston top and the head is flat. The squish jets create a swirl in the centrally located piston dish.

Quote from another forum:

Many people don't understand the importance of turbulence in the combustion chamber. Here's some good reading on the subject.

squish action

just to re-cap a bit. for this to matter in a head, you need to have quench, and the quench area is the flat part of the head where the piston will squish the mixture. this means that in my heads pictured here, where there is absolutely NO flat area, that using grooves would be a total waste of time right?

i didnt notice before, but there is no flat area at all to speak of. maybe a half inch at best, so i guess i'll just wait till i build a different engine.

This thread started with a civil exchange of ideas that shortly thereafter went out the window.
Someone explain why this pissing match has not been dumped. Eleven pages of the same crap, there are three sides, those that swear by it, those that would give it a chance, and those that will not believe in it unless there is scientific proof that it works. Apparently no one is willing to put up the cash to prove or disprove the theory. I have seen less get dumped quicker. How many more pages does it need to go on?

I read over a page that had posting rules on it and it didn't say that there was a set limit as to when a thread need to be stopped. Can you help out on this one?