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Old 11-04-2003, 07:10 AM
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single stage vs. base clear?

Hello there. I'm pulling my hair out trying to decide between ss and b/c. I've talked to a hundred different people and got a hundred different answers. But you guys are the "be all end all" for me. My painter wants to use ppg single stage for the first coats followed by a mix of single stage and clear, then topped with clear. He claims better look with no sacrifice in durability. It is a solid color (no metallics). I'm hoping for a good debate here from the die hard base clear guys and the frontiering single stagers. A debate that will convince me that one is truly better than the other.

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Old 11-04-2003, 08:14 AM
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Catalyzed urethane base/clear is in all ways (except cost) superior to single coat. Period. If your painter isn't going to charge you the national debt for that involved paint technique and if he does good work, by all means go for it. Sounds like it will come out fantastic.
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Old 11-04-2003, 08:21 AM
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My wife had a '94 Z that had a small spot that needed to be repaired. One thing led to another but that is a very long story. Anyways they repaired it in single stage paint. The first time I waxed it the polishing cloth had black on it. I raised the Titanic. I specified BC/CC. They told me that the single stage was just as good. The single stage did not have the gloss that the BC/CC has in my opinion. If I were you BC/CC. If your painter does not want to do that then take it on down the road. Just my $.02 worth.

Kevin
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Old 11-04-2003, 12:59 PM
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My opinion, of course... I sprayed single stage for years. I now will not spray anything BUT base/clear. Reasons: Better gloss, durability, resists fading better, buffs and polishes better, looks newer longer.
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Old 11-04-2003, 01:29 PM
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Well I am just wondering if anyone has heard of this technique. Start with single stage then paint over it with a mix of single and clear. Then finish her off with clear. I mean are there paint systems compatible like this? If you just paint over the single stage with clear, the clear will be peeling in no time unless it is shot right after the single and single/clear mix. Or is he planning to let the first two cure and then sand between coats. Sound like a load of crap to me. Why would someone go to this trouble when they could just use a simple 2 stage and get perfect results? If he wants it perfect he can wet sand between the base coats and clear.

Anybody done this???

Chris
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Old 11-04-2003, 02:09 PM
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If it were me, and I was going to paint something that wasn't a metallic and talent or money wasn't an issue I would not put clear over a soilid color. I would use PPG's "CLV' single stage three part paint system.

http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/p-204.pdf
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Old 11-04-2003, 04:25 PM
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Sometimes clear is mixed in with the color on 2nd &3rd coats to save money. Clear is cheaper b/c no pigment. Some claim it also adds to the shine of sigle stage. But if he is going to clear over the color this would not matter.
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Old 11-05-2003, 01:49 AM
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Now I'm curious, is he going to usePPG's CLV? The stuff is bulletproof. Clear would be second best. Heres a bike painted with it that went down hard yet some of the panels polished out.

http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1440
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Old 11-05-2003, 05:11 AM
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Painting single stage and mixing clear with the final coat is not uncommon at all. Some paint lines, even the inexpensive ones, offer this option. Case in point, PPG Omni MTK acrylic urethane gives the painter the option of mixing 50/50 with clear in the final coat. And that's exactly what I did Sunday when I painted the cab of my truck.

If your painter wants to put an additional coat of clear he's probably thinking that it will add a little extra UV protection. I would ask him to show you the "P" sheets for the paint system he's going to use. If the instructions don't specifically give that option, I would not under any circumstances let him spray a final coat of clear, or probably even paint the car.

Modern paints cure based on chemical reactions rather than simple evaporation. Paint manufacturers formulate their product to be used in a certain way and if the painter doesn't follow the "P" sheet instructions for mixing and spraying all bets are off. The whole thing winds up being a crap shoot because you don't know how the product will react and the results can be very disappointing. My $.02.

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Old 11-05-2003, 08:31 PM
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Interesting. I had just never heard of doing this. Learn something new every day.

Chris
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:35 AM
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I have a used car lot customer that I do paint work for, he furnishes the material, and that is the way he wants them
it's cheaper than clear coat, and looks good. Don't know about the durability.
Like Centerline says, be sure the paint system is designed to be used that way.

Troy
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Old 11-07-2003, 01:19 AM
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I think some people mix clear with the single stage to even out metallic more on the final coat, and then shoot straight clear, not sure. I personally use single stage a lot for solid colors, but prefer basecoat/clear for metallics because it is a lot easier to spray and you don't have to worry about screwing up the metallic when you wet sand and buff. Base/clear definately looks better though, has a deeper look to it cause of the clear.
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Old 11-09-2003, 12:56 PM
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Using that technique could work, but you would get the same result by using b/c, and not as spendy or complicated. Mixing a little paint with a mid coat of clear will give it a bit of a candy effect, witch looks great, maybe that is why he wants to do it, but you can do that with b/c too.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
Painting single stage and mixing clear with the final coat is not uncommon at all. Some paint lines, even the inexpensive ones, offer this option. Case in point, PPG Omni MTK acrylic urethane gives the painter the option of mixing 50/50 with clear in the final coat. And that's exactly what I did Sunday when I painted the cab of my truck.

If your painter wants to put an additional coat of clear he's probably thinking that it will add a little extra UV protection. I would ask him to show you the "P" sheets for the paint system he's going to use. If the instructions don't specifically give that option, I would not under any circumstances let him spray a final coat of clear, or probably even paint the car.

Modern paints cure based on chemical reactions rather than simple evaporation. Paint manufacturers formulate their product to be used in a certain way and if the painter doesn't follow the "P" sheet instructions for mixing and spraying all bets are off. The whole thing winds up being a crap shoot because you don't know how the product will react and the results can be very disappointing. My $.02.

Centerline
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this same topic has been going on for some time on anouther string here - i use au / clear all the time and mix 50/50 final coat color the usually two coats clear as stated above - make SURE your paint combo is set for this - I DONOT recommend useing clear over anything else includeing bc/cc - bb/cc is flawed IMHO from the getgo - when paint seperates it ALWAYS seperates eather one of three places - metal /primer - primer /paint - bc/cc - paint NEVER seperates mid layers unless of corse you painting one layer a day lol -see my point ?
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:44 AM
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Amazing to see these old threads still getting hits...

ppg concept or base/clearcoat
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