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Single stage vs Two Stage vs 50% base/clear

35K views 51 replies 9 participants last post by  deadbodyman 
#1 ·
I keep forgetting to get other peoples input. I have been playing around with some panels. One with single stage black, another base/clear black and another single stage base, with single stage 50% clear mix. In pictures they look about the same, but in the sun, the single stage seems to just have more depth and gloss, but I am not sure if it is just my imagination.
What go me thinking is, I saw some reruns of American Hot Rod, and noticed that Boyd used single stage on most of the projects that were on the show, but they never say why?
Also, how much effect does the final grade of paper used to do the last sanding before painting? 400 vs 800 or ??
Let me know your thoughts and experiences. I have few projects that will be Black. Some black cars I see in the shows, just look like liquid black plastic and a mile deep shine, where others look good straight on, but looking down the side seems like they look "cloudy" is the only way to explain it!
Here is a good example of one that just looks what I am talking about, in the sun or florescent light, it looks great.
 
#2 ·
Single stage paints are well known for being richer/deeper in color.
I like single stage urethane with a clearcoat for the best look.
I won't use single stage enamel or lacquer, period, it's much less durable
and not much difference in money.
Enamel stays soft forever, even with a hardener.
Lacquer gets rock hard and chips easily.
So when you say single stage, which one?
Lacquer, enamel or urethane?
Big difference between all of them. :mwink:
 
#7 ·
Inner fender rinsed off with water, color sanded with 800 and then rubed with polishing compound. You can see the UV rays have already started to break down the paint, you can see the epoxy primer. Even with clear on there at this point the paint would be shot.
 

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#8 · (Edited)
V8&4spd said:
Why would you want to use clear on a single stage? .
For one reason the mfg. recommended it.
I used a Kirker SS urethane that had a large metallic in it and the tech
sheets recommend to clear coat it.
It's a color used for a base under candy.
I would clear anyway when I'm going to cut and buff a metallic,
you really don't want to sand into the metallic to buff it.
I've seen a lot of "show cars" with clear coated single stage paint.
It's one of the best looking paint combos out there, and durable.
My car's paint is almost 4 yrs old and still looks as good as new,
I drive it everyday and haven't got the first chip,
That paint has been unbelievable for durability.
And the color was about a third of the cost of basecoat.



Here's the paint I used
http://www.kirkerautomotive.com/images/PDF/UCB_Series.pdf
 
#9 ·
That"s a metalic color. On solid colors I would not use clear. The sun here will end up destoying anything you put on it. The same paint without the sun beating down on it won't have the same problem. Black is the hottest color, it aborbs the sun. When I get ready to use the inner fenders, I will scuff it up and shoot some more black on. That paint will go the distance without the UV rays breaking it down.
 
#11 ·
V8&4spd said:
That"s a metalic color. On solid colors I would not use clear. The sun here will end up destoying anything you put on it. The same paint without the sun beating down on it won't have the same problem. Black is the hottest color, it aborbs the sun. When I get ready to use the inner fenders, I will scuff it up and shoot some more black on. That paint will go the distance without the UV rays breaking it down.
So a good clear coat won't help with durability and wear and tear over a SS urethane?
I thought it would protect it from the elements,plus easy to sand scratches out later,plus a good cut n buff give it a better shine?

I'm no pro,just my thoughts on it
 
#12 ·
When UV rays destroys the clear on high line factory cars, how do you expect it to make a single stage last longer? In the desert you are only going to get a certain amount of years out of a paint job on car that is outside all the time. There is not a single make of car with a BC/CC that is imune to the sun. It gets them all, BMW, Lexus, Cadilac. White paint last the longest.
 
#15 ·
heres my perception of urethane paint in my simple minded version.
bare in mind I'm only talking about solid colors and never use SS metalics.
I consider solid color,SS ,urethane,paint to be clear with color added ..
so if I want a noticeable difference in depth first goes 2-3 coats of color and let it dry a couple days then I'll sand it with 600-800 mix some color and clear together (I do it by eye so I cant tell you the ratio) maybe 1/3 color 2/3 clear,I'll apply 2 coats of that ,let it dry a couple days sand it with 800 and shoot 2 coats of clear ...this seams to give me some very good depth and it takes a long time so I don't do it very often but it sure looks impressive the car has to be stripped first and I would never do it over another paint job. also just because it works for me and is a personal trick of mine I don't recommend anyone doing it until they painted a few cars.and can tell when the SS paint is dry enough to be re-coated.Also the paint has to be of the same brand and mixing ratios
 
#16 ·
I'm just a consumer. I know some body shop owners. I was told if I wanted the clear to stay on there with a single stage to wait a few weeks after the paint was put on and scuff it up before I put the clear on. I might as well paint the car twice that way. I don't care if it looks different with clear on it. It's just a hobby car. A lot of body shops around here just use a single stage because they know what will happen and most of the cars getting paint jobs are not worth putting a exspensive paint job on. If I used AE on there it would not have lasted as long. I can repaint it now for less than $100. I could sand the paint and put on another top coat.
 
#17 ·
if its a solid color you want you really should go with a SS ..its way cheaper,easier and faster with less chances for something to wrong.
As far as the look goes I proved time and time again 90% of the people cant tell SS from BC/CC after a year no one can tell until you sand it SS has blk dust...Now SS metalics is a completly different story ,they look like dodo and no pro would use them on something with his name on it...
 
#19 ·
V8&4spd said:
I'm just a consumer. I know some body shop owners. I was told if I wanted the clear to stay on there with a single stage to wait a few weeks after the paint was put on and scuff it up before I put the clear on. .
That's not what the tech sheets say.
I did what the owner of SPI (the clear I used) told me was best.
Spray the single stage and wait over night then clear it.
Kirker says the clear MUST be topped within 24 hrs of the color.
(not sanded).
I found it best to wait at least 3 hrs to keep it from mottleing the
metallics but overnight is sure safer.
I didn't sand before the clear, I didn't want to disturb the metallics.
Like I said. mine is almost 4 yrs old, driven daily and has held up better
than any basecoat/clearcoat I've done. :pimp:
 
#23 ·
you wont get a better cross link than ss urethane to clear urethane . why do you think activator is added to base. desert , swamp makes no difference what product you use. just determines what speed activators and reducer you use. there is no reason to wait that long. now there are old poly enamel junk out there but i don't use such stuff.

there is a reason they have tech sheets for products.
 
#24 ·
I didn't use the clear because I didn't need to. What exactly is the purpose of the clear on a single stage solid color? The BC/CC paint I used did not use a activator, it used a stabilizer. Kirker is a whole different system. The Kirker single stage uses a activator, so why would I put clear on top of that? It might benifit the paint salesman but it was doing nothing for me.
 
#25 ·
most every professional painter i know adds some acc to the base . since the base is the weak link in the paint job. i only use base when doing certain colors, high metallic . anything else gets ss then clear except black which gets no clear. there's nothing special about kirker paint. it is not what i would call a high end stable resin. reminds me of the old polyurethane enamels of the 70's which plagued shops with problems.
 
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