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Old 02-24-2006, 12:07 PM
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single vs. dual plane- which should i use?

using desktop dyno to put my package together. using a dual plane manifold im building 400 ft. lbs @2000 rpm w/ a peak power of 430 hp@5500 rpm. Switching to a single plane cost me nearly 40 lt lbs down low(2000 rpm) but creates 455 hp@ 5500 rpm with less power drop off . in my case, ill be using a 3000 stall converter with 3.42 gears, TH400 in a 3900 lb. car . which is going to be more important, the 40 ft.lbs. down low or the 25 hp up top? any questions i will answer. i just need a little advisement. thank in advance.

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Old 02-24-2006, 12:18 PM
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Well,

The first question most of us will ask is, what are you doing with the car? By the Gears I think it's a Street car, and,if that is true, go Dual plane as it will give you more grunt down low (which is where your Engine will be working most of the time anyway)-
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:21 PM
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consider where you spend most of your time
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:34 PM
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I would take the results from Desktop Dyno with a large grain of salt. What's the motor and what are your intake manifold choices? Have you given as much thought to the other wave-tuned devices?
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:45 PM
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it is a street car which will see limited track duty. motor is a 400 with dart 200cc pro1 heads and a voodoo cam rated from 2800-6200 rpm. intake chocies are a perf. rpm or a torker II , either will be port matched. isee your point on where ill spend the most time at(15-3500 rpm) with street duty. i just didnt know if the RPM would be hurting me upstairs. thanks again, alex
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:55 PM
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Stick with Performer RPM. Regular or Air-Gap, both will work well. Here's a couple tests I have bookmarked that show the differences. The RPM intake loses six hp but is up 20+ lb-ft on the low end.

CHP 383 Manifold Test

A second test:
PHR Intake Test
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Old 02-24-2006, 02:51 PM
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and losing 25hp looks like alot till you divide by the 3900 lbs of the car = .0064% loss weight/hp ratio = maybe a tenth difference in et

look at the curve from 1500 to 4500....buy a dual plane...

"peaks" are wide open throttle values only
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:54 PM
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A performer RPM all but eliminates all of the weak points of both. They really don't give up hp compared to a single plane, and they build all of the torque of a dual plane. Most tests done between an RPM and a single plane show a mild increase in peak hp, but at the cost of average power and torque making the RPM the better choice, especially at your power levels.

What desktop dyno also doesn't tell you (if this is a street engine) is how hard it might be to start when cold, the vacuum you might give up for power brakes, and the cruise MPG that can go down the tubes with that accompanying vacuum loss.
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:32 PM
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""""ill spend the most time at(15-3500 rpm) with street duty. """"


No you wont.

If you're putting a 3000 stallin, Youll spend all your time at 3000 and up


Sure itll idle away from the curb but when you put your foot in it, Itll pop up to 3000 rpm from a standing start.

Everywhere you go will be at 3000 rpm and up, under power.

Which brings up another point you made...


"""using a dual plane manifold im building 400 ft. lbs @2000 rpm w/ a peak power of 430 hp@5500 rpm. Switching to a single plane cost me nearly 40 lt lbs down low(2000 rpm) but creates 455 hp@ 5500 rpm """





...If you put a 3000 stall in it and apply youre foot, you're rpm has already shot past the 400ft lb of torque at 2000 as your converter is not going to lock up at 2000 rpm if its a 3000 rpm.


Think of it this way.

The harder you push the pedal, the higher the stall will lock up.

So youre statement that "using a 3000 rpm stall - Ill get 400 lbs of torque at 2000 rpm" is impossible as your torque converter is a 3000 stall, not a 2000-at power.

Also. most dual planes are rated at 2500 to 5500 rpm.

With a 3000 stall, youre already climbing toward the mid range of this intake.

A single plane is better suited to higher stalls.



..Really, It sounds like your playing with a computer dyno to build your dream engine.

Take it down a notch and build the engine a little more realistic to your needs

"street and the odd time on the strip"

A 3000 stall converter is not considered street in any sense of the word. Neither is a single plane. Unless your idea of street is Racing every night and then thats STRIP not street.

Youll be disapointed with the single plane and especially the 3000 stall if you plane on cruising in it. Build A potent street engine for the street and odd strip. Dont include strip components for a street engine.

A 2400 stall and a dual plane is a street and odd strip combo. 3000 and single plane is strip with Limited Street Use.


Just, Above all else, remember that there is no such thing as putting 400 ft lbs of torque at 2000 rpm to the ground with a 3000 rpm stall.

What does the dyno estimnate for torque at 3000 rpm were/when the converter would lock up... Thats the logical question

moe

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Old 02-25-2006, 07:35 AM
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I have done tons and tons and tons of dyno pull with various motors on the dyno similar to yours. The trend predicted by desktop dyno is accurate. The absolute numbers are a bit off from what I have seen over at least 40 pulls or more though. Suffice to say you'll see a measurable difference below 5000, I'd estimate in the 20-30 ft/lb range with a HP gain at 6000 of LESS than 10, if it kept pulling up to that point.

You would be hard pressed to find a faster combo than with a good high rise dual plane similar to the RPM.
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