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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
You are right Henry, but the polyester putty works so easily I would still skim coat large panels. I know that if I was doing the whole panel I would be spraying polyester primer before polyester putty though. You are right on all accounts in that matter.

But if you are doing a panel at a time, filler work then getting it into primer as most home hobbiest should so as to not be overwhelmed with a complete car, skim coating with polyester putty is just fine. I have done it a ton. First off, if you skim smaller areas and get them knocked out like below a body line only. Then do the upper section knocking it out, it can be spread in small enough areas to get it on there before it kicks. But if it was hot, oh heck no, you simply don't use that product because it isn't the right product to use under those conditions, just like a door ding isn't the conditions to use polyester primer.

If it's hot and you are doing large areas, polyester primer is the way to go.

But you can also thin your Rage with some Glaze coat so it flows out smoother. This is a recommended procedure by Evercoat.

SwValcon, I spread polyester putty over EVERYTHING I do, it is the final glaze coat. There is no reason to limit it to sand scratches, if it is used as the final glaze coat you have NO sand scratches to think about.

Brian
In production shop it's necessary cause it's only primed once and so it needs to not have any pinholes whatsoever. This means adding metal glaze when the filler is perfect and just serves as insurance. In a restoration shop two rounds of primer over good filler and good technique eliminates the need for a filler that smooth and expensive. We only use it after second round of primer if there's something very small or if it's small enough to apply, sand, and seal over it. If you're doing a whole car and planning to metal glaze the entire car it would get expensive way too fast.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:51 PM
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Your right on that Tech69. I maybe use a tube of glaze every two or three cars. Now primer thats another thing again. I'am sure i use more 2-k on one car than a production shop uses in a week. But I'am not pushing out a ton of cars a week either.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 07:49 PM
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Glaze? Are we talking 1K or 2K? I haven't had 1K glaze around my shop in literally 30 years! No kidding.

We will have to agree to disagree Henry, if you eliminate the need for the primer to work so hard, it is saving you work and it is producing a higher quality end product, be damned if it's restoration or collision, makes do difference to me.

Brian
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:07 PM
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I do resto work as well, I strip to bare metal, straighten metal with hammer dolly, then use a shrinking disc. I use Evercoat fillers, (Rage, Metal glaze, thinned with plastic honey. finish to 120 grit. Then SPI epoxy primer to seal body from moisture, (2 coats). Filers will absorb moisture. Then slicksand with a 2.0 tip and thin it 10% with urethane reducer. (2 coats.) I block with 180 and keep paper fresh and have a blow gun handy. If there are minor flaws, I will spot glaze and re-epoxy any sand-throughs. Then I will urethane prime (2 coats). Then final sand with 320 to break the orange peel and then lightly sand with 400. Seal, Base, Clear. I'm sure there are some that feel this is not the best process. It takes me 100 hrs to do filler and block work.

Your thoughts?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 09:47 PM
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Sounds fine to me. A little different than I do but as we have said many times there are a lot of variables when it comes to guy to guy doing this stuff.

Brian
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Glaze? Are we talking 1K or 2K? I haven't had 1K glaze around my shop in literally 30 years! No kidding.

We will have to agree to disagree Henry, if you eliminate the need for the primer to work so hard, it is saving you work and it is producing a higher quality end product, be damned if it's restoration or collision, makes do difference to me.

Brian
I don't think anyone uses the 1k stuff anymore. I have a tube that I had since I started. If I left a little mess of it on the outside it's still probably not hard.

I will say though in a production shop I always go for the glaze to finish my bodywork off. It makes sense...you can feather it into paint and don't have to worry about pinholes. In restoration, I still spread it tightly but since it's not a glaze it might have a few pinholes here and there but I'm not too concerned about it as long as I hand it to the painter after blowing it off for a half an hour so there's no dust in them, and I DO take care of any big pinholes. Superficial ones don't need it cause the first round of poly primer fills them perfectly. In production, you can never hand over something with ANY pinholes cause the primer isn't as thick nor is it getting primed twice. I think there's a different approach for each so I'm assuming your time in a production shop is why you'd reach for the glaze. I don't blame you and nobody is wrong here. There's a million ways to skin a cat.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 35prog View Post
I do resto work as well, I strip to bare metal, straighten metal with hammer dolly, then use a shrinking disc. I use Evercoat fillers, (Rage, Metal glaze, thinned with plastic honey. finish to 120 grit. Then SPI epoxy primer to seal body from moisture, (2 coats). Filers will absorb moisture. Then slicksand with a 2.0 tip and thin it 10% with urethane reducer. (2 coats.) I block with 180 and keep paper fresh and have a blow gun handy. If there are minor flaws, I will spot glaze and re-epoxy any sand-throughs. Then I will urethane prime (2 coats). Then final sand with 320 to break the orange peel and then lightly sand with 400. Seal, Base, Clear. I'm sure there are some that feel this is not the best process. It takes me 100 hrs to do filler and block work.

Your thoughts?
I think it's a great idea to spray poly under 2k. I like your process and it's pretty close to ours but we spray our epoxy right before priming to get a cross link. I really like 120 but when I cut something big down with 80 I fear it's already good so I'd rather have a 150-180 so it doesn't cut down any more of it, but that's just a personal issue I have. Good stuff.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35prog View Post
I do resto work as well, I strip to bare metal, straighten metal with hammer dolly, then use a shrinking disc. I use Evercoat fillers, (Rage, Metal glaze, thinned with plastic honey. finish to 120 grit. Then SPI epoxy primer to seal body from moisture, (2 coats). Filers will absorb moisture. Then slicksand with a 2.0 tip and thin it 10% with urethane reducer. (2 coats.) I block with 180 and keep paper fresh and have a blow gun handy. If there are minor flaws, I will spot glaze and re-epoxy any sand-throughs. Then I will urethane prime (2 coats). Then final sand with 320 to break the orange peel and then lightly sand with 400. Seal, Base, Clear. I'm sure there are some that feel this is not the best process. It takes me 100 hrs to do filler and block work.

Your thoughts?
id so love to get a hold of a shrinking disc, that right there would prolly eleminate the whole reason to need to put on a filler skim. what im looking for is something i can use as a first slop coat to fill in the stuff i cant hammer out, something i can use as a top coat to feather out the slop coat, and something i can use to skim with, ive done it with bondo brand, bondo brand is a little thick. im looking for something a slight bit easyer to spread. i know that my evercoat z grip spreads nicer than bondo, but i would like something a slight thinner than the z grip, that i can use as a all around, ive got self levaling glazeing putty, but thats a little to runny for what i want. the spray filler right now is out, i cant afford 90 bucks a qt to do a qtr panel.
i know tricks to do a decent smooth skim, like mixing directly on the flat panel ( hood , trunk, roof) but side panels are a bit harder to get a nice even skim on. just looking for a good material to use. but yeah old school rules on my personal car, **** i would never worry about it on a customer car that wasent a show car job.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 11:02 PM
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i cant afford 90 bucks a qt to do a qtr panel.
i know tricks to do a decent smooth skim, like mixing directly on the flat panel ( hood , trunk, roof) but side panels are a bit harder to get a nice even skim on. just looking for a good material to use.
$90 a GALLON, not a quart! A quart would run you around $30. I don't know why you're still looking for a good creamy filler, there's been lots of suggestions offered up in this thread. Everybody loves the Rage, but as Henry and myself discussed, Marson Platinum or Platinum Plus are great creamy fillers for much less $$ than Evercoat's Rage.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:36 PM
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$90 a GALLON, not a quart! A quart would run you around $30. I don't know why you're still looking for a good creamy filler, there's been lots of suggestions offered up in this thread. Everybody loves the Rage, but as Henry and myself discussed, Marson Platinum or Platinum Plus are great creamy fillers for much less $$ than Evercoat's Rage.
ill look into the marsons, is it going to be compatable with ever coat, if i decide to, abandon the rework. right now everything on the car is at the point to where it just needs a top coat/ skim to even up some of the feathering. im grinding all that out. and reworking the metal in some of the deep areas to where the filler is to thick for my personal tastes.
since i got some experianced people, any one got any good ways to strip paint from a truck bed??? looking for fast and effective, its getting a wood bed doesnt have to be perfect but it still needs primer and sealer!! thanks for all the suggestions guy keep um comming.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
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$90 a GALLON, not a quart! A quart would run you around $30. I don't know why you're still looking for a good creamy filler, there's been lots of suggestions offered up in this thread. Everybody loves the Rage, but as Henry and myself discussed, Marson Platinum or Platinum Plus are great creamy fillers for much less $$ than Evercoat's Rage.
i don't see where theirs a bunch of savings with the marsons products, unless your getting a hell of a discount from your jobber/ supply house. i see rage as being cheaper. and as someone said the ever coat products can be mixed, to make the viscosity that i want to work it at. i might just say screw it and get some cheep *** bondo and some resin and thin it out a little.
the reason im looking for a different viscosity is to help with getting less highs and lows. which for me means less sanding and doing it all over again.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:30 PM
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i don't see where theirs a bunch of savings with the marsons products, unless your getting a hell of a discount from your jobber/ supply house. i see rage as being cheaper. and as someone said the ever coat products can be mixed, to make the viscosity that i want to work it at. i might just say screw it and get some cheep *** bondo and some resin and thin it out a little.
the reason im looking for a different viscosity is to help with getting less highs and lows. which for me means less sanding and doing it all over again.
Where are you looking!? A gallon of Marson platinum costs $38-40. A gallon of Rage costs around $60. The Marson has got a little more expensive in the last few years I think. I used to get it from Oreilly's. But I paid about this same price, maybe a little lower, at a jobber here in town.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2012, 04:35 PM
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ill look into the marsons, is it going to be compatable with ever coat, if i decide to, abandon the rework. right now everything on the car is at the point to where it just needs a top coat/ skim to even up some of the feathering. im grinding all that out. and reworking the metal in some of the deep areas to where the filler is to thick for my personal tastes.
since i got some experianced people, any one got any good ways to strip paint from a truck bed??? looking for fast and effective, its getting a wood bed doesnt have to be perfect but it still needs primer and sealer!! thanks for all the suggestions guy keep um comming.
Marson is completely compatible with Evercoat; I apply it on top of Evercoat fiberglass, and I apply Evercoat EZ Sand on top of Marson. In fact I have even thinned down Platinum with EZ Sand, but I rarely find myself having to thin because it's so creamy and easy to spread as is. If you need to fill pinholes or fine scratches I still prefer a thin putty like EZ Sand to do that.

You're used to cheap Bondo which is like heaving clay on a panel. The Platinum or Rage is very creamy and easy to work. I don't think you'll find you need to thin it.

Or get a $30 quart of Slick Sand and spray it on far more uniformly than you'd ever be able to spread it. If you still had a low spot after Slick Sand you could spot it with putty.

You're trying to do a 'show quality' job but using the cheapest components you possibly can. I didn't know those two were necessarily compatible.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:22 PM
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You might shop some for the Rage. O'reilly's asked me 61 dollars for it. I declined and went to our local Sherwin Williams jobber and they charged me 41 dollars. I do like the rage and at that price it it affordable. I am not suggesting that the Marsons and others mentioned are not good too.

John L
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:50 PM
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Marson is completely compatible with Evercoat; I apply it on top of Evercoat fiberglass, and I apply Evercoat EZ Sand on top of Marson. In fact I have even thinned down Platinum with EZ Sand, but I rarely find myself having to thin because it's so creamy and easy to spread as is. If you need to fill pinholes or fine scratches I still prefer a thin putty like EZ Sand to do that.

You're used to cheap Bondo which is like heaving clay on a panel. The Platinum or Rage is very creamy and easy to work. I don't think you'll find you need to thin it.

Or get a $30 quart of Slick Sand and spray it on far more uniformly than you'd ever be able to spread it. If you still had a low spot after Slick Sand you could spot it with putty.

You're trying to do a 'show quality' job but using the cheapest components you possibly can. I didn't know those two were necessarily compatible.
well let me explain a little about this here, about the last comment you made, and im not offended.
"You're trying to do a 'show quality' job but using the cheapest components you possibly can. I didn't know those two were necessarily compatible."
here's the problem here. first I don't like to use bondo brand I think its crap hard to smooth, is completely unpredictable in curing times, and has adhesion problems. the only reason that i even mention this is because my last customer went and bought his own filler because when i showed him the detailed estamit for good filler, he disagreed with the price of the filler because he saw that they had gallons for like 25 bucks at harbor freight, that was most likely 5 years old on the shelf so that's what i got stuck with. most times i would not skim entire panels period, unless it was a show job. but who ever did the panel work before me welded on a qtr panel wrong and decided to hide it with 2 inches of bondo. need i say more.
this car im talking about now is my personal car, that i was working on along with several other cars of a good friend of mine. he got in over his head having me work on 4 cars at once. and couldn't pay what he offered, so he new i liked the ranchero and he handed over the title. this was 8 months ago since the car has been touched, she was naked ready for primer. and he went in for heart surgery, so the ranchero got side lined while i did the car above mentioned to help my friend pay some bills while he was outa work recovering. well since then ive lost my place to do my body work, because the county that we live in are being ****** and he has to have all his cars in side his garage and that leaves me with no where to do mine, so i rigged up a shelter to keep the rain off but i don't know how long ill be able to keep that up. so to make a even longer stories shorter, im trying to do the job the way i do my show cars. bye bumping and doing the work right but i need to get her in epoxy asap before the winter or the pd makes me take down my shelter. then hope that the epoxy is enough to keep her till spring. after the engine and everything else is installed.
so to recap time crunch, ****ty conditions, bunch of drama!!!!
i want to thank everyone for there help! i will look for the marsons and price it out with my jobber. and ill give her a try.
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