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Old 04-14-2008, 01:50 AM
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Skins or 80%?

My question is a very easy one and I would like to know the best route. I have a quarter panel that is smashed at the contour line on an 69 Firebird (picking up later today) The smash it not very big, but don't believe that the true shape can be brought back out. What are the advantages and disadvantages I am to expect by taking one of three routes.

1. buying the patch or partial of the panel, cutting only the bad section out and welding the new one in

2. buying just the skin and cutting the entire outer skin off and welding on the new skin.

3. buying the 80% skin and cutting and welding it in.

The issue that I am concerned with is what kind of distortion, uneven spots, or allignment problems am I going to have the greatest of with any of the three, and which hides the cutting/weld work best with the least room for problems due to doing this. Full quarters are out of the question simply due to the higher price when all I need is to repair about a 6" by 12" spot.

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Old 04-14-2008, 04:44 AM
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Mud it if it's money your worried about.

If something that small came thur my shop i'd use a stud gun, hammer & dolly it, slap a little mud on it and send it to the booth.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:13 PM
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you should be able to get it close enough to finish with filler. you will have alot more bodywork with a patch or skin then you would by metal bumping the panel.
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:32 PM
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Whats the trick?? I have seen guys do mud work and have it crack horribly and in a couple cases fall out in chunks. These guys are no experts, far from it obviously, but what makes or beaks this kind of work. I am very familiar with fiberglass work/ reconstruction, is the prep work similar or is this apples and oranges.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:45 AM
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Sounds like those guys have no clue on how to do bodywork if there filler is just falling off.

No there's not a huge diffrent in working with mud vice working with glass. As you already know with glass, It will only stick to it's self if sanded, same with filler.

Also you have to relieve the tension in the metal which is covered under doing your bodywork correctly before you put on the filler. You just can't put filler on the bottom of a oil can and expect it to stay put if it keeps flexing up and down.

v/r
Corey
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:47 PM
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"fair to good chance" that the lower sections of those qtrs have been mudded due to rust already....inspect them carefully...remove the rear interior so you can inspect at the rockers

there is almost no welding needed to re-skin a qtr anymore...using 2 part panel bond adhesive...so distortion isn't a issue....

post a pic' of the dent...to get a decent reply...for stud gun or skin
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:51 PM
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If you will have problems with repairing that dent, you may have more problems with installing a "Quarter Skin". A quarter Skin often means it is made to be installed over the original. That means that, if you cut the original off, the body lines will not be in the right places. The wheel opening also does not fit right. It will be a lot of work to make it fit right.

Aaron
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:57 PM
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I got to my PC late today due to work as you see, so I will try to get some snap shots of the dent in question this week depending on the work load, if not then definitely Saturday morning.

Thanks Again,
Dave
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:54 AM
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Duh...I forgot to post the pic's for a bonded qtr skin...

first pic is all cut away and note the missing outer wheel housing....your car will very likely need that also

second pic shows the panel bonded on...the dark grey horozontal line at the qtr top is the 2 part panel bonding glue...the skin top edge is actually only about 1/8" below the very top edge so very little mud work to do

the glue is also a excellent rust protector so there is some dark grey showing at the rear of the panel on the old metal applied after welding

yes, fitting a full qtr skin can take some patience....
the after market parts quality varys and the body has changed shape from use and just the hit it took to make the dent....

just about every old car has had atleast one hard hit accident in it's lifetime...
so do measure up everything...the whole car... to know what your dealing with....
body shops have been known to cut corners...(a big part of our customers bill is often fixing previous repairs to get it back to oem correct)

ps: note the car was stripped and blasted before the skin went on
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Last edited by red65mustang; 04-16-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 04-16-2008, 04:15 PM
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I'm glad you posted that red65.
I glued on the quarter skins on a 68 chevelle a couple months ago.
I still have nightmares about it coming back. I take it you've had good luck using the procedure? So far so good with the chevelle. You know, it just doesn't seem right.

Larry
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:07 PM
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Bonding metal vs welding? Click here



Brian
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:26 PM
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Ibell101..... do read that excellent thread Brian posted the link to....

joe's post #7 sums it up for me...the good/the almost no bad....

Brian...thanks (CRS=I had forgotten that excellent thread and father son project...enjoyed reading it again very much...thanks again)
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:23 PM
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Thanks for the kind words, and we have the second installment of the test with right angle flanges in the works, I'll post the results.

Brian
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:44 PM
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Brian,
I chuckled when I saw that "right angle" test request when I first read the thread (aka "peel" test "because" it is very difficult to have a very exact equal plane pulling force on both sides)

those force angles are never at work on a car panel

it would apply if you panel bonded a tow hook onto your bumper!

best regards
Red

ps:LOL.... can't decide if Duplicolor rattle can bed liner spray or panel bond is my choice for best product in the last 10 years!
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:44 PM
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That was my first thought when I read that as well. But in doing collision repair for 30+ years for a living I have seen where there was a "peel" force on a panel, so I will give it a try. Like I said in the origina thread I want to see a "Mythbusters" MAKE it fail kind of test as well. I plan on ripping apart a couple of test coupons that are glued together to see where it fails.

Brian
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