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Old 12-17-2009, 09:17 PM
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Skip white 383 crate motor on ebay

I was thinking of rebuilding my 1975's l48 as a 383 and thought it would be a better idea to go with something like this (I want a reliable driver with power) and store the numbers matching motor.
I have TH400 and 348 gears. Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

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Old 12-17-2009, 09:26 PM
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Myself and friends have bought engine components from Skip White, no problems to report, but we haven't bought anything nearly this big from him, just small stuff. White's Performance has been around there in Tennessee for many years.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:33 PM
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Heads

These pro comp heads have had a lot of complaints in the past.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:44 PM
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i too have a bought a couple of things from white perfromance off of ebay before and i haven't had a bad experiance.

my only concern here is the rod and the heads, they mention PC rods and heads and most of us on here know that is ProComp, and they have a horrible reputaion for both their rods and heads, ive known guys who would say they wouldn't put ProComp rods in even a stock build, and if you look on ebay you'll find those exact same heads for sale for around 699.99, they are rumored to be built from inferior aluminum in china, with horrible flow characteristics and flow numbers, there is also no reason why a 383 street motor would need anywhere near a 215cc head to hit 440hp especialy with a mild hyd cam. i would seriously look else where for a decent 383, not saying that whites performance is bad just the ProComp parts they have used.

start a new thread asking people about the ProComp rods and heads, and i'm certain that the replys will change your mind.

sorry bud, check out blueprint engines, they have some good prices and a good reputation
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
i too have a bought a couple of things from white perfromance off of ebay before and i haven't had a bad experiance.

my only concern here is the rod and the heads, they mention PC rods and heads and most of us on here know that is ProComp, and they have a horrible reputaion for both their rods and heads, ive known guys who would say they wouldn't put ProComp rods in even a stock build, and if you look on ebay you'll find those exact same heads for sale for around 699.99, they are rumored to be built from inferior aluminum in china, with horrible flow characteristics and flow numbers, there is also no reason why a 383 street motor would need anywhere near a 215cc head to hit 440hp especialy with a mild hyd cam. i would seriously look else where for a decent 383, not saying that whites performance is bad just the ProComp parts they have used.

start a new thread asking people about the ProComp rods and heads, and i'm certain that the replys will change your mind.


I have heard that about the heads. I asked and they said the problems were with the build components (valves and springs etc.) and that through testing are ok with the performance and reliability. they will change whatever you want, what would you recommend.
I have also heard of quality issues with the blupreint motors, and do the rest of the components match up. this motor with a full roller set up is $4,300

sorry bud, check out blueprint engines, they have some good prices and a good reputation
no apology necessary, that is why I ask before I pull the trigger....thanks
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:13 AM
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May I explain breifly the issues with the Procomp heads. About 5-6 years ago, we had a few problems with the heads, more than we were willing to tolorate, so we switched to Patriot, (also made in China) the first generation 190 heads were outstanding in flow rates. About two years ago, Patriot changed manufactors, and the head was what we considered garbage in build quality. Procomp in the meantime had greatly improved their heads and we had them send us a set plus one. We cut the one head in half to inspect what was at one time an inhearent weakness in the head. The problem no longer existed. We dynoed the full set they sent, and the results were excellent. As for the mention above about rummors of poor quality aluminum. 356 automotive cast is the lowest grade known to start with. This is a false rummor, as we have overheated the heads, intentionlly and during a fan off test unintentionally. The poor flow numbers mentioned in the post above can be attributed the PC 190 heads. They most certainly have flow issues, and this is not a problem on mild buildups. The 210 heads have excellent flow rates. I mentioned in another post on the main problems with the Procomp heads, and I'll mention it again. Procomp in LA knows nothing about selection of hardware, or the installation of it. We know that most failures in past were related to the hardware quality and mismatching of parts, not to mention many of the sellers of these heads have installed the hardware inproperly. So in short the biggest problems with Procomp is it's management. They have some very good products, and some not so good. We know how to tell the difference, and when it comes to hardware, we know what to use and how to install it.
My God, where's the spellcheck at!
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
The poor flow numbers mentioned in the post above can be attributed the PC 190 heads. They most certainly have flow issues, and this is not a problem on mild buildups. The 210 heads have excellent flow rates.
So, am I reading this right that the PC 190 heads are still poor flowing, but the PC 210 heads are AOK?

You mentioned hardware probs. Does this extend to valves/ valve length or retainer/springs? Or? What specifically is wrong, h-ware wise?
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:19 AM
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Yes the PC 190's have very poor flow rates compared to the 210's but this is not much of an issue on engines built to 375hp and less. The hardware issues are nightmares. We have never had Procomp build our heads, and never used their hardware until recently we have had them obtain the sbc 100 long valves for us. The valves that they normally offer to most of their other sellers was not suitable for us. The retainers and springs were not only a mismatch but what we considered poor quality. You must understand that Procomp is a distributor of products, and not the actual manufactor of most of their products. They have made great efforts to have the heads built correctly, but when it comes to hardware and installation of the hardware, their was a problem as we seen it. Not a problem for us as we have total access to many outstanding hardware companies, and expert installation of the hardware, not to mention our experiance with high level racing heads. We have built enough engines, and spent hundreds of hours on the dyno testing not exactly the heads and hardware but several new engine programs using the PC heads. Procomp now has taken our advise and is trying to obtain better hardware, as they have with the valves. As for those 190 PC heads, you will not have an issue if building a 350 or smaller mild buidup. Never would you consider them on a 383 unless that engine is going in a full size heavy truck with a low rpm high torque cam. Bottom end power is very good with the 190's but falls short greatly when paired with cams in the upper fours/low fives. They remind me of the Vortec heads in there power range.

Last edited by SKIP WHITE; 12-27-2009 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:26 AM
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Skip: With the poor reputation of these Procomp heads, is it worth it to your reputation or sales volume to use these heads? Even thou you prepare them in house.

When I first looked (was offered at a attractive price) at these heads (190 pro comps) for a engine project, upon inspecting them myself what came to mind from the port appearance was lack luster performance at best (unless I did a lot of hand work to them I'm not talking about casting flash) and unknown casting material quality etc etc.
I could not justify going for these heads, even at the lower cost.

Showing these brand heads and rods in your crate motors is a deal breaker, for me. I'm sure others fee the same way. The reputation is not good on this stuff.

i have no direct experience with the 210 heads.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 12-27-2009 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
Yes the PC 190's have very poor flow rates compared to the 210's but this is not much of an issue on engines built to 375hp and less. The hardware issues are nightmares. We have never had Procomp build our heads, and never used their hardware until recently we have had them obtain the sbc 100 long valves for us.
Thanks for your response, Skip. Hard to find empirical info on these heads and rods, for that matter. Everything is passed along as gospel by guys that have never even seen a pair, let alone knowing what is wrong and what can be fixed, etc.

Are the heads heat treated to T6?
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:41 AM
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Have you really compared them to other heads. We sell Dart heads also, and what I see in the Darts is fabulous build quality in areas not seen by others, but when it comes to casting issues such as flashing material they are no better, and those that think these flashing or slag spots cause a problem can remove this with a dremel tool quickly, but they do not cause a problem. You say you didn't like the 190 heads, I said the same thing also, but I also know this is not as issue on mild buildups. We never sold the 190's till a few months ago, as so many guys were building these lazy small camed engines, demanding the most power below 3500 rpm, and that is where these heads are actually more suited than the 210's. We really don't recognize these engines as true hodrods, so we didn't recognize the heads as true performers. They do have a place, and they do exactly what they are supposed to do. Procomp has and is still paying for their sins of the past, a learning curve if you will, as they lost us for two years and this cost them greatly. Do you really think we would sell these heads if they were not a good head.
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Old 12-27-2009, 05:28 AM
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Thanks Skip for the info.What about the rods?I'm assuming you guys do the same thorough inspection also?
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:37 AM
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p/c heads

I am a old hot rodder and eng builder. I needed some alum heads for my dragster,sbc, so I went looking. Read all the problems and cked prices. Looked at used that were supposed to be worked and found most lacking. I found a set ,on e bay, of pro comp 210 that filled the bill for me.I called and told the dealer I wanted roller springs/.660 lift on the 210 p/v told me the price 649 shipped. When the heads came in I went directly to my head porter. They flowed ,stock 279 @ .650 lift, when he finished they were 300 @ .650 lift. A 5 angle v/j finished them out. I have looked at lots of alum heads and I am very satisified with this set. The ports were matched to a fel pro 1206. we could have gone larger but my hilborn injection, 1962 model year would not allow it. This is first hand info, not some one that heard they were bad, and passed it on.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyBoy
Thanks Skip for the info.What about the rods?I'm assuming you guys do the same thorough inspection also?

Ya, I'd also like to know about the rods. Didn't see any info on them above.
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:06 AM
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I've been using the 210 heads and have the same results as Feddo, nearly the same #'s with just a minimal amount of time cleaning them up. Casting looked as good as a pair of 215 Trickflows the neighbor had, in fact if TrickFlow hadn't carved their name on them it would have been tough to tell them apart in bare form, the casting looked that good. Seemed to be the same thickness everywhere, but I didn't cut one up to find out LOL.

Bought my Pro-Comps bare and picked the assembly parts myself. Valves, springs, retainers, etc all came from Erson, .700" lift roller stuff.

Been using the ProComp rods for a little over a year too, 7500 rpm 406 with light pistons on a Scat Crank. Rods look identical to the Scat ProStock I-beam capscrew rod, just minus the Scat logo, look much better than the Eagle SIR rod. No problems to report. When it comes to rotating assembly, Eagle is the ones making the real junk with their cast cranks and SIR rods.

I think Skip hit the nail right on the head in regards to ProComp, you have to know what you are looking at and pick and choose from their products. I made a 2 hour road trip to look at the 210 castings before I laid down the money. They were listed on the internet but I wanted to visually inspect the casting before I bought, I wouldn't be afraid to buy them again but I'd always buy them bare so that I know exactly the quality of the parts used.
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