Originally Posted by my87Z
i'm not trying to chap your hind skip, i'm just going off what i have heard in the past, mainly about the 190cc, i dont know much about the 210cc. to most peoples belief 210cc on a motor that wont run 6500RPM is a bit much. but really as long as those higher runner size heads still have good flow numbers at lower lift and have a good consistant rate of increase going into a higher lift then you're really not going to loose anything at lower RPM
(this is what i was refering to when i mention a mismatch of parts, a high runner size with a non high reving cam)
you did say that they are solid performers and i guess for a low to mid 400hp expectation they may be, this is not the numbers i normally think of when i hear someone is useing 210cc heads i normally expect low to mid 500hp. i know that i bought a set of the DART iron eagle platinum 200cc heads had them angle milled to 58cc and had the flashing cleaned up and mild port and polish then flow tested and got a little better numbers then you mentioned with the DART pro 1's.
like others have mentioned it does sound as if you truely belive in what you are selling, and like i mentioned before i have bought things from you on e-bay in the past. i was very pleased in what i received before and i'm not trying to discredit your name. i'm just weary of PC products, reputation is butt and very hard to turn around once you have messed it up.
when i mentioned that i have seen this exact motor with the exact cam, heads, intake, valve covers, block etc. i was telling the truth, it was right when i first made a comment on the original post, i looked at another performance shop and saw it. it doesn't mean that you dont build the ones you have i just thought it was ironic.
I understand your sceptisism.
We use the 210's on our Stage 1 350 engine and make 418hp at around 5800 I would like for the 190's to flow better, but I know they wouldn't make this power on that engine. If the 190's did flow decent enough, then the engine would have a better low end. The Stage 1 engine, doe's very good, but not in a heavy car with the 488/510 cam. We tried the 210's on a 400 engine with the 568-/574 hyd. roller cam, and they made right at 500hp but torque numbers were not that great, or may I say nothing like the 220 cnc'd heads. Larry, our engine builder did a 383 with the Lunati 04 Vodoo cam and made 440hp with 495lb feet of torque, using the 210 heads. I don't remember at what rpm, but I can tell you this is the solom truth. I would have never guessed it could make this hp and torque, but it did. I did a 350 with the Lunati 03 Vodoo cam and the 210 heads, and it didn't do well at all. You say an engine that's like our's is on the market, its because someone is copying the combo I suppose. We don't outsource any engine building. at the moment.
The sellers of the PC heads have pushed the 190 heads to people with 383 engines, telling them that they are good for medium to serious buildups. We certainly don't think they are, and it's because of the flow numbers. It would be nice to have a set of 190's that had good enough numbers to work with a 383 engine, but the only ones out their are the high end heads. We have sold over 100 of the Stage 1 engines, and they al have the 210 on them, and that is pushing it when it comes to building a medium built 350 with 418hp. The engine does very decently in a not to heavy car. The old Patriot 190's were magic, and they are no longer available.