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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
And to that I will add, there are just as many if not more that will and do approve of these heads. Have you surveyed this with all the machinists in the country. If your saying that these machinists find the Dart Platinum Pro 1's a better choice then I would have to aggree for many good reasons. But for several reasons, strange as some may be, the PC heads have a place, and they are very reliable and strong performers.
To be honest I haven't talked to any of the machinists I use and/or trust that will recomend them. They'll rework them (money is money), but they all recomend staying away.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2009, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
To be honest I haven't talked to any of the machinists I use and/or trust that will recomend them. They'll rework them (money is money), but they all recomend staying away.
Same here.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2009, 12:31 PM
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I've got a Scat crank in a 383 cid engine I built about 6 yrs ago...

Although the crank was new , my engine guy had the crank cut 10 - 10 to straighten up the clearances for the bearings. The crank was not ground correctly. I hear some of these cranks are still "out" sometimes?

I have a new set of old design pistons ( hyperutechnic) for 5.7 rods... I may assemble another engine soon for an old class C chevy motorhome. I hope it will tow better than the 350 motor did

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
And to that I will add, there are just as many if not more that will and do approve of these heads. Have you surveyed this with all the machinists in the country. If your saying that these machinists find the Dart Platinum Pro 1's a better choice then I would have to aggree for many good reasons. But for several reasons, strange as some may be, the PC heads have a place, and they are very reliable and strong performers.
you mention that you guys build these motor's, that's weird cause i have seen the exact same motor with the exact same specs and exact same valve covers, everything, being sold by other performance shops.

i have nothing against skip white's performance shop as i have bought a few products online from them and they have been good quality and have been received in a very timely fashion.

you mention that these heads are strong performers, i disagree, they dont have good flow numbers at all. they dont flow any better than a set of RHS 180 pro actions and if you compair them to a set of RHS/DART/brodix/AFR... the list goes on heads with the same runner sizes you will really see where they are inferior. i've also heard that they are made with inferior metals/aluminum and that is why you can buy them online all day long for 649.99 (you get what you pay for).

i too know machinest who will use PC products, but only when given a very low budget or when dealing with someone who askes for them beacuse of their price, if you ask a machinest if they would build their own motor with them they will tell you NO!!!

one other thing is to use 210cc heads on a 383 with the hyd cam used and to make 440hp is all mismatched.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
you mention that you guys build these motor's, that's weird cause i have seen the exact same motor with the exact same specs and exact same valve covers, everything, being sold by other performance shops.

i have nothing against skip white's performance shop as i have bought a few products online from them and they have been good quality and have been received in a very timely fashion.

you mention that these heads are strong performers, i disagree, they dont have good flow numbers at all. they dont flow any better than a set of RHS 180 pro actions and if you compair them to a set of RHS/DART/brodix/AFR... the list goes on heads with the same runner sizes you will really see where they are inferior. i've also heard that they are made with inferior metals/aluminum and that is why you can buy them online all day long for 649.99 (you get what you pay for).

i too know machinest who will use PC products, but only when given a very low budget or when dealing with someone who askes for them beacuse of their price, if you ask a machinest if they would build their own motor with them they will tell you NO!!!

one other thing is to use 210cc heads on a 383 with the hyd cam used and to make 440hp is all mismatched.
Your post makes not sense at all. Yes we build our engines here, and I never said these heads are top performers, compared to Dart and AFR. And we do sell them for $649.00 fully built. The flow numbers are decent with the exception of the 190 PC heads, I didn't say these heads have huge numbers, as most people building a 400hp plus or minus engine will see little advantage when going with high flowing heads. I sell the Dart Platinum Pro 1 heads, and sell very few of them even though I wrote a very good add on how improved they were over the early ones of a couple years ago. I personally like them very much, but they are very slow sellers for us.

Below is a comparison chart that's in every add I have on the PC heads. I don't show the PC heads as being better than the better heads on the market.

300 400 500 600 650 700
DART 230 Intake 188.6 233.5 267.1 280. 0 281.0 281. 0
Exhaust 148. 2 176.3 191.9 201.0 201.2 201.2

PROCOMP 210: Intake 161.6 206.5 240.2 260.4 264.9 264.9
Exhaust 131.0 148.2 152.8 152.8 152.8 152.8

Fully CNC'D 220: Intake 195.0 236.0 258.0 274.0 278.0 281.0
Exhaust 150.0 175.0 193.0 203.0 206.0 209.0

DART 200: Intake 191.0 231.0 256.0 258.0 258.0 264.0
Exhaust 140.0 168.0 184.0 192.0 195.0 200.0

Of course most machinests will not use them on their own motor, as every one of them I know goes all out on what they build for them selves, and have access to high end heads, not to mention they build the engines themselves.

210 heads to build a 383 with a hyd. cam is not mismatched at all.

The 190 heads that Procomp offers do have poor flow numbers, but this is not much of an issue on mild 350 buildups.

I don't want to hear another mention of how bad these heads are or that they have inferior metal. I sell $100,000.00 per month of these and have been for about two years, and have nearly zero problems with them. I've dynoed them to death on at least half a dozen combos, with great results. I run the cnc'd version on my 400 cid engine and make 535hp at 10.5:1 comp. ratio on pump gas. Car goes 10.6 in the quarter. Have made no less than 80 passes at the track, drove it thousands of miles on the street.

I have never said these heads are the top performers, but they certainly have a place in the hotrod community.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
I don't want to hear another mention of how bad these heads are or that they have inferior metal.
Do you know whether or not they're heat treated to T-6? And, what are the seat material as well as the guide material, if you happen to know off hand.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:07 PM
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At least you are being up front so a buyer can make a informed choice.
Your data looks valid to me.
The PC210 heads look a little weak at .400" compared to the others and stuff I'm familiar with.
A little hand work may fix them up. Same with the exhaust side. Needs some work.

the fully CNC'd numbers look ok for the price they are sold for and intended market.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 12-29-2009 at 12:23 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:07 PM
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I really don't know if they are heat treated to this number. According to our head builder the seat material is just as it should be. We have encountered no problems with these heads. I did an intentional overheat test on them once, and never harmed them. We were doing a fan off test to see how long it took our new Super 16 fan to cool the engine back down. We ran the engine to 235 for several minutes. Then my driver did an unintentional overheat on them by forgetting to turn the fan on. The engine went to 245 for several minutes.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
I really don't know if they are heat treated to this number. According to our head builder the seat material is just as it should be. We have encountered no problems with these heads.
Fair enough. I didn't expect you to know everything there is to know about them, however I'd appreciate it if you could run the questions by your machinist to see if he has any input.

I'd expect the seats to be cast iron and the guides bronze/bronze alloy. The material the heads are made from is A356? Not every shop is equipped w/the instrument to test the heat treat, but your guy might very well be equipped to do just that. But I'd like confirmation if possible.

Thanks.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:18 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Mind sharing where the block comes from?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:19 PM
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Here is a link on some very impressive heads with great flow numbers, in as much as they are only 218.5 runner size, (rounded to 220) These heads make huge power on several buildups we have done. They are slightly different than what I have in my car, and I can't wait to try them on our new 421cid engine program.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=350298925552
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Mind sharing where the block comes from?
If you mean the one we use on our Stage 2 and 3 engines, They are from GM Performance div. They are the latest version of the Bowtie block. We did get a great deal on them, and would not be able to sell them for this price otherwise.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
Here is a link on some very impressive heads with great flow numbers
I will say this: It's evident that you believe what you are saying. In that regard it passes the 'smell test' for me, anyway. Granted, you are making your cabbage selling them. But I just don't detect any intentional deception- and that's appreciated.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:37 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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block description says you have them bored to 4.125", standard 400 bore size. Then you run 4.030" pistons in them... Is piston slap a problem?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
If you mean the one we use on our Stage 2 and 3 engines, They are from GM Performance div. They are the latest version of the Bowtie block. We did get a great deal on them, and would not be able to sell them for this price otherwise.
ya I've noticed that GMPP has done some agressive price restructuring of late.

A lot more competitive.
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