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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
If I only had $600.00 extra to spend on my engine, I think I would go with a hyd. roller cam, and a set of retro lifters, and go up slightly on lift and duration or at least keep it the same, and add a set of stud girdles. Spending the $600.00 this way would make more sense in my opinion.
Is this in addition to a set of PC heads already on this engine (in other words, not bought w/the same $600), or instead of a set of PC heads?

I can understand the Dart heads not selling as well as the PC's. When you can buy a new set of heads cheaper than you can rebuild and upgrade an OEM set, there will be takers- a lot of takers.

I'd still really like to pin down the seat material and the guide material. Not in order to find fault w/the heads.

I'm going to be surprised if the seats are some exotic alloy, in fact the intakes are likely ductile iron and the exhausts may just be hard bronze.

In that the guides are just liners, they could be manganese bronze but may be bronze/alloy.

Is the deck thickness known?

What aluminum alloy is used to make them?

And are the heads heat treated?

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Is this in addition to a set of PC heads already on this engine (in other words, not bought w/the same $600), or instead of a set of PC heads?

I can understand the Dart heads not selling as well as the PC's. When you can buy a new set of heads cheaper than you can rebuild and upgrade an OEM set, there will be takers- a lot of takers.

I'd still really like to pin down the seat material and the guide material. Not in order to find fault w/the heads.

I'm going to be surprised if the seats are some exotic alloy, in fact the intakes are likely ductile iron and the exhausts may just be bronze alloy of some sort.

In that the guides are just liners, they could be manganese bronze but may be bronze/alloy.

Is the deck thickness known?
To clarify this, I meant that if you were doing an engine project from scratch such as a 350/383, and were going with a hyd. flat tappet cam, nothing real serious, the PC heads are in line. If you then could afford to spend another $600.00 on the engine, the cam upgrade would be more enjoyable, but if you spent the money on upgrading the heads, and kept the low cost hyd. flat tappet cam in the engine, you are not going to see much difference in performance. But then again as I said the bragging rights are certainly established with a set of Dart Platinum Pro one heads on the engine, not to mention a very high level of reliability, and excellent resale value on your vehicle or engine.

Last edited by SKIP WHITE; 01-12-2010 at 04:30 PM.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
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I think Cobalt is asking these questions because if quality can be verified then its a great deal. I'll get in line if the quality can be proven.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I think Cobalt is asking these questions because if quality can be verified then its a great deal. I'll get in line if the quality can be proven.
I will talk to our head builder in the morning. He is very knowledgable on this. I'm sure the guide material is what it should be, as we have never had a customer experiance a problem with them. One thing for sure, if any of these factors were an issue we would have heard about it by now. You can't believe how many of these we have sold in the last two years with zero problems concerning guide and seat issues.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP WHITE
I will talk to our head builder in the morning. He is very knowledgable on this.
Thanks for following up w/this with your head builder.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:11 PM
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It really boils down to what Skip said in that if the PC heads are what you can afford then they are a viable alternative for a budget engine. if you feel you need more then step up and buy the Darts, AFR, Edelbrock or Brodix.
I don't think Skip needs to prove anything to anyone. He's a businessman and so long as he has confidence in what he sells and more importantly his customers buy what he sells then its all good.
I am sure he stands behind his product and has a good support team doing his head and machine work.
So Skip, I say keep up the good work!!!! If the product was bad in this electronic age we live in you would not still be enjoying great sales of these budget heads.
Just to set the record straight, our domestic manufacturers don't necessatily produce the best product available either. The United States and Canada have turned out their share of turds too!!!
It's good to be back!!!!
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:46 PM
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I'd like to hear the facts about the materials and heat treating, for comparison purposes. I never heard of pro comp engine components before this thread, so I'm wondering how they stack up.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2010, 11:47 PM
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Customers

If you can find one hotrod in china with north american parts then this thread makes sense. If as I suspect the closest thing to a hotrod is a two man rickshaw then don,t buy Chinese parts.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2010, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by price
If you can find one hotrod in china with north american parts then this thread makes sense. If as I suspect the closest thing to a hotrod is a two man rickshaw then don,t buy Chinese parts.
Those who type such nonsense on there Microsoft keyboard made in China that cost around $8.95 not to mention the low cost monitor and much of your computer don't seem to be complaining about those products. You most likely have more offshore parts on your car than you realize that were installed at the factory. Weather or not this situation is a good thing, it's part of life. If you require a level of quality that is not offered by offshore products, then by all means seek it from a company you trust, and of coarse you must pay the price. Could part of this flood of offshore products be the result of several factors, such as many companies charging unrealistic prices for products. I know many will say that operation costs in the US are the only reason for high prices, and I say that's only part of the cause. I have in the past offered a somewhat full line of overpriced US made products, and still do offer some of them. If it were all that I offered I would be out of business for sure. So tell me what I should do. I sell 1600 HEI distributors a month for various applications. The average price is around $42.00 MSD's average price is around $250.00 each. I know they are better quality, but I can't sell them, so I stopped trying. I can truly appriciate the outstanding quality of these products that are US made, and do sell some of these items that are much to critical in tolorances to take a chance on. Just remember no body is forcing you to buy products from countries that you don't want to support. You tell me what to do. My decisions are dictated by my customers. I personally would prefer many of the not so overpriced products that are made here. One of my suppliers offered me an offshore sbc oil pump for about 35% less than the Melling M55HV. Well our price on the Melling M55HV is only around $23.00 and it is a truely good value, and knowing that Melling has invested much money and time in seeing that this oil pump will last the life of the engine, means a lot to me. So for a difference of about $7.00 I would not even consider going for a no name Chinese knockoff oil pump. This is not the case on many products. The price difference is dramatic on some items, and this is when I take the additional step of testing. There are some products that are pure junk, and I avoid them regardless of how low the price is.
Bottom line is, people are quick to criticize others for buying or selling offshore products that they know nothing about. I'd like to see someone try making a living selling US made Fabricated valve covers for about $300.00 per pair. You should see the ones made in Tiawan for around $58.00 retail price. These offshore fab. valve covers are amazing in quality. This is all that many people can afford. Any many that could afford the overpriced valve covers, can't justify the huge price tag.

Last edited by SKIP WHITE; 01-13-2010 at 04:47 AM.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by price
If you can find one hotrod in china with north american parts then this thread makes sense. If as I suspect the closest thing to a hotrod is a two man rickshaw then don,t buy Chinese parts.
Update on Chinese transportation. The rickshaw is being phased out, check this out from Shanghai China. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxXSo6HNbhA
It' not a hotrod, but it's sure not a rickshaw. So does this thread now make sense.

Last edited by SKIP WHITE; 01-13-2010 at 03:25 AM.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:08 AM
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What it boils down to is that you give the customer what they want at the price they want it at. An old timer once told me to give my customers thier moneys worth. I think some people dont understand business. I have a set of skips fabracated valve covers and they work great. I also have a procomp efi distributor, I havnt installed it yet but I will let everyone know. A 383 long block capable of 420hp for less than 4K brand new, is a good value, period the end.


To Cobalt,

I wasnt trying to piss you off. I think before you recommend a part you should know the part inside and out. I hate to burst your bubble but money makes the world turn at every level. Some people dont have 1200 bucks to spend on heads for a street driven cruiser. Again I am not attacking, I just get tried of advising against something they have never tried personally.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:29 AM
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SW parts.

Great post, Good debate and finally someone (Skip White) tells it like it is. I have personally purchased numerous products from Skip White's store and was pleasantly surprised to find the quality very acceptable for the price. I have had no issues with the products he sells. I know what I am buying! How many other businessmen would post on this site and engage in a debate. Class act! My hat's off to you Mr. White!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2010, 08:46 AM
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p/c heads

Its post like this that brought me to a set of pro comps for my sbc dragster. when we received the heads and measured them they were 67 cc combustion, we had to angle mill till they were 55cc for my application. the flow out of the box for the 210s was 279 @ .650 lift. thats not bad for a stock head. had them ported and it now flows just a tic over 300cfm. this will work on my 331 cube eng.The deck is still good after all the milling. I don't know how much but there is a bunch of alum shavings under the mill.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V3500
To Cobalt,

I wasnt trying to piss you off. I think before you recommend a part you should know the part inside and out. I hate to burst your bubble but money makes the world turn at every level. Some people dont have 1200 bucks to spend on heads for a street driven cruiser. Again I am not attacking, I just get tried of advising against something they have never tried personally.
Pissed off?? Hardly. Quite the contrary, in your case I'm merely amused.

You simply refuse to comprehend the difference in asking TOUGH questions and what you perceive as degrading a product.

I will say this but once more- please PAY ATTENTION!
  • I've NEVER said do not buy from Skip
  • I've NEVER said do not buy PC heads
  • I've NEVER said do not buy Chinese
  • I've NEVER said do not buy off shore
I HAVE said:
Quote:
The fact is- IMO- SOME of the parts and pieces coming from 'elsewhere' are OK, but MANY of the parts are just hastily made, reverse-engineered pieces of **** that are bought for a pittance and sold for a pittance and a half by unscrupulous importers who could give two ****s whether or not the parts are fit for the app or not. THEY (the importers) will be gone before you can say boo, along w/your hard-earned coin- having morphed into yet another LLC w/a new name, etc.

The bottom line is- for me- to use due diligence in any expenditure that you make that involves off-shore or non-mainstream importers. This includes ALL the Chinese imports, as well as parts coming in from anywhere else. This is your best weapon against being taken.
AND:
Quote:
There are quite a few first hand reports of various problems w/these heads- Skip even mentions some of them. So it's not like the heads are only being black flagged because they're Chinese. They got BF'ed because there were problems w/them, period.

Now, if you can find out what the heat treat specs are, or even what material the guides and seats are made from, that'd be something.
If I am going to spend MY money or recommend ANY product, you damn well better know I will ask as many questions as I deem fit, and with absolutely NO REGARD to anyone who gets their panties bunched up about those questions, or who misconstrue the motive behind my queries.

Now, is there anything else that you do not comprehend that I may be of service to you to explain???
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:27 AM
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SKIP WHITE, i and my friends have bought your parts off ebay. your parts are great. i would recommend Skip White to anyone. i have no affiliation to skip, i live in NOR-CAL and restore/mod early vettes. skip whites parts are good.
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