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Old 03-13-2011, 09:03 AM
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sleeve/deck surface - expert oppinions needed

Thanks for all the help last time around.

Will this minor bevel on the sleeved cylinder keep the gasket from sealing?
Should I be worried about it failing near the threads and passages?

This is for a 'moderate' 383 marine application.

I measured it with the deck micrometer (or whatever its called) and
the minor bevel is down 0.004 (I did not measure the actual bevel that is there on purpose)

Unfortunately, I did not know the block was sleeved until I went and gathered up my bucket-o-parts.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:37 AM
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.004" is not acceptable. Looks like the sleeve moved or was improperly trimmed. If it moved you will have nothing but trouble from this hole... If it was a poorly finished sleeve top. You could have the block decked.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:42 PM
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Ayuh,... Worse yet, it looks like there's a lip on the bottom of the sleeve, in the 2nd picture..
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:29 PM
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Yeah if that step in the bottom of the bore is smaller dia than the bore you will have to remove it. Not good. Hopefully the sleeve is all the way down in the bore.... get in there with mirror and check. If it is not down it will have to come out and be re-sleeved. I don't like the groove at the top. You can call it an o-ring groove but I don't think the gasket will seal it very well. A very small bore gasket might seal it.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:50 PM
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Thank everybody for taking a look.
I could see a cross hatch on the lower part.
I can fit my thumb nail in between the sleeve and the original bore.

here are some pictures from below...
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:28 PM
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Very poor installation of the sleeve. The bottom ledge that the sleeve sets on was not cut properly. See the crud in the parting line. Possibly that and too little press fit, is why the sleeve moved. The parting line should be almost invisible after finish honing. The job will have to be done over to be correct.

I usually lighten up on the sleeve press fit on 400 blocks. But Then I use a copolymer glue on the repair sleeves. They DON'T move after install.

Neighboring cylinders will deform from sleeve install. If you get this job re-done properly. They will need further attention..
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:44 PM
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I have to agree to the bad install. I suspect that they didn't allow for the radius on the tool tip and some stuff got caught on the bottom of the sleeve. It's not down solid enough in the block. Really the whole job is botched and should be re-done. Sleeves are not that hard to install, once you do it correctly you should never mess up like this.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:18 AM
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Thanks for all the help.

Part of me just wants to put it together and let it grenade rather than starting over with nothing.

Boy, am I getting an education.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:01 PM
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When enlarged, the second picture looks like they indexed the overbore wrong, the lip looks like it narrows the further from the widest area you go. Hopefully the deck isn't cut that far out, or that the original bores aren't that far off.

A possible crutch would be to deck the block, if it hasn't already been- IF that would bring the sleeve even w/the deck w/o going too far below "zero". Far from ideal, but better than grenading it on purpose!
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:16 PM
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As of now the math tells me I am already .008 out of the hole.
icon IC728. (1.433 comp.ht) 5.7 rod, 3.75 stroke
I was going to measure once mocked up.

What needs to be installed to measure accurately?
The pistons have spiral-locks (or whatever they are called)

The machinist tells me the block is at 9.000.
But when pressed he says its "close to 9".
So, I really don't know anything.

I also got several different answers on the piston to wall clearance.
That was the reason I had to gather up all my parts and
now I find out I had a sleeved cylinder.

poor machine work $1200
wrong pistons $800
grenade-ing the motor: priceless!!!
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:48 PM
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You can set the crank into the block using three main caps and bearings, well lubed. Then mock up a piston, using bearings, well lubed and rod cam torqued.

Ideally, you'd want to do all four corners to see if the decks are square front to rear. If you don't have the rings on the pistons, do the corners one at a time so the piston doesn't c0ck in the bore as you rotate the crank.

Once the piston is up to TDC, use feelers to center the piston (especially if no rings are installed) and measure the deck height w/a bridge micrometer or a straightedge and feelers, etc. Measure over the pin.

350 blocks are plentiful- worst case, source another block and bore it to match your pistons and cut your losses.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
You can set the crank into the block using three main caps and bearings, well lubed. Then mock up a piston, using bearings, well lubed and rod cam torqued.

Ideally, you'd want to do all four corners to see if the decks are square front to rear. If you don't have the rings on the pistons, do the corners one at a time so the piston doesn't c0ck in the bore as you rotate the crank.

Once the piston is up to TDC, use feelers to center the piston (especially if no rings are installed) and measure the deck height w/a bridge micrometer or a straightedge and feelers, etc. Measure over the pin.
Thank you very much for taking time out to help me. I'll get on it after the kids go to sleep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
350 blocks are plentiful- worst case, source another block and bore it to match your pistons and cut your losses.
Anyone have recommendations on a machinist near Melbourne FL?
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d1mbu1b
Thank you very much for taking time out to help me. I'll get on it after the kids go to sleep.


Anyone have recommendations on a machinist near Melbourne FL?
Above, I meant to say
Quote:
You can set the crank into the block using three main caps and bearings, well lubed. Then mock up a piston, using bearings, well lubed and rod cap (not cam) torqued.
If you were in the central FL/Orlando area, I'd send you to Revmaster on Old Winter Garden Rd, Orlando, FL. Despite the name, they are a good, middle-of-the-road machine shop that knows what working within a budget means.

Unfortunately, I don't know any shops over on the east coast.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.com
Neighboring cylinders will deform from sleeve install. If you get this job re-done properly. They will need further attention..
Will this affect the neighboring clearance with the current pistons?
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:10 PM
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Yes, thats why I mentioned it.
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