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Old 05-10-2005, 08:57 AM
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small journal 327 block with 283 crank?

I've heard a crazy rumor that one can use a 283 crank in a small journal 327 block and build a very scary 10,000rpm 302?

Anyone heard of this or have any info?

Rich

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Old 05-10-2005, 09:15 AM
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The 302 was just a 283 with a four inch bore, such as the 327 has. A lot of guys ran "four inchers" in their '57s by boring .125. They were screamers. We didn't know Chevy would later come out with the 302 in Camaros in '67.

The only challenge is finding 302 pistons, which tend to be a little pricey.
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlackey
I've heard a crazy rumor that one can use a 283 crank in a small journal 327 block and build a very scary 10,000rpm 302?

Anyone heard of this or have any info?

Rich
ANY 10 grand engine is scary (as are the people who think of building them). Yes you can make a small-journal 302 with that combination. If you really have to. Fear and common sense dictate a realistic redline between 6500 and 7200 rpms.

tom
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:55 AM
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H,mmmm

327 block..283 crank and rods..Pistons? try and see if Howard or Jahns are still around..Isky 505 cam..that 6 deace manifold ya got..yeah about vintage early 60's hot motor..Grinnn..

Little bit of dicipline in the right foot and it shoudl hang together..

Reccomend a 5 speed tho..

OMT
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Old 05-10-2005, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
327 block..283 crank and rods..Pistons? try and see if Howard or Jahns are still around..Isky 505 cam..that 6 deace manifold ya got..yeah about vintage early 60's hot motor..Grinnn..

Little bit of dicipline in the right foot and it shoudl hang together..

Reccomend a 5 speed tho..

OMT
OMT, I'm pickin up what you're puttin' down. I've got a pretty big grin on my face right now too. That's just what I was thinking, so far I have the Offy 6x2 and six Holley 94's, a early 327 long block with 64cc double hump heads and I can easily find myself a 283 crank and rods. Howard or Jahns eh? I'll keep a look out for the cam too.

You know how anal I am about keeping this build period correct though. This complicates my trans choices somewhat. Have you read my other thread about the 4 speed hydro?

What kind of power and torque can I expect from this motor? any ballpark guesses!

I'm going to have permagrin all day now! 6500 - 7200 eh? Skaaaayyyy reeeee!

Things are starting to come together now.

Rich
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:20 PM
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B&M hydro stick

That was a new hot setup in the early 60's...Where you would get one is anyones guess..Most of us ran a 3 speed as the 4 speeds...Borg warner T-10 came out in the Mustang early 65 models..then the muncie followed smoetime after that..Running a 4 speed was a prety Woooo-Hooooo deal in those days unless someone sprang for the big bucks and bought a new car..

If you can find a the olds rear end and run 4.11 gears that is pretty correct as well..

Gotta remember..outside of Cal most guys put their cars together out of locally available componets.."no internet""

OMT
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:28 PM
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Whats a B&M Hydro Stick? Could you expand on that a bit?

With the internet, I have been very successful at finding exactly what I'm looking for within a few days, and often at a very good price. I was checking out a couple Muncie boxes on ebay and the earliest I found was a '65. Is the fourth gear an overdrive in the four speed boxes or 1:1?

I'm on the lookout for the Olds or Pontiac rear end, so I just need to figure out what to do for a transmission. I guess I'd prefer a manual as it would give a lot more control, especially with a motor that can spin 8 grand without even trying. What was the 5 speed you were refering to? I assume that wouldn't be a 60's box?

BTW, I want to keep this thing at least somewhat streetable too. Was anyone narrowing thier rear ends and putting in some larger rubber in the 60's?

Rich
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:31 PM
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Back in the mid to late sixties we had a local legend in the area. He ran a red 61 or 62 Vette that was set up for quarter mile only. It had a 283 from what I remember. He routinely planted the pedal and came off the line at or around 9K. I have heard rumors that he held several NHRA records at one time. His name was Sam Cunningham.

On a recent TV program on CMT, they visited a shop that specializes in building NASCAR engines for one of the leading racing teams. Aaron Tippen was the host. He sat at a dyno console that had a fresh SBC set up on it. He fired it up and began to slowly advance the throttle. The engine builder behind him told him to plant it. He shoved the throttle all the way foward and the tach climed up to 10K and stayed there. The engine tech said they hold it there for a considerable amount of time. . If it holds together it goes to the team.

Vince
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302/Z28
The engine tech said they hold it there for a considerable amount of time. . If it holds together it goes to the team.

Vince
Now that's a white knuckle ride for sure, these guys must really be pushing the limits of the sbc. I wonder how long Sam's motor lasted him, do you think he would have been using the stock 283 rods?

Rich
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Old 05-10-2005, 03:14 PM
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Speed-Pro makes 2 pistons for the 302.

The L2210AF makes 11.8:1 with a 64cc head and is kinda heavy.

The L2503F and L2504F (chamber matching domes) make about the same compression but are lighter and are for 6" rods.

Both are forged.

tom
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Old 05-10-2005, 05:58 PM
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I'm an old Ford guy, but I believe that is the combination that was the basis for the original Z28. It had a pretty strong reputation.
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
I'm an old Ford guy, but I believe that is the combination that was the basis for the original Z28. It had a pretty strong reputation.
Yep, it sure was.

Vince
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Old 05-11-2005, 12:02 AM
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Can anyone recommend how I should build my heads?

They are 3782461 double humps, 160cc/62cc port volumes, and according to the numbers should actually have 62cc combustion chambers and I'm assuming they have 1.94/1.50 valves.

I'm just thinking about springs, rockers, and so forth, if I want it to hold together at that kind of rpm, then it's going to have to be built for it.

Also, anybody have any suggestions as far as rods? I guess the first guys to do this used stock 283 rods, but is there anything that will be stronger and/or lighter than won't break the bank?

Rich
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:20 AM
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The factory 302s were rated conservatively at 290hp. Some say it was a lot higher. I believe all of them were 4-speeds with steep gears.

I have a '69 302 (DZ) with I believe "pink" rods, but they're large journal. The heads are 186s with 2.02/1.6 valves. I haven't checked the springs. The rockers were the standard stamped variety.

The "homemade" 302s probably used what was available like the the GM Power Packs, i.e. 520, 896.
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:29 AM
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Well, 290 certainly doesn't get me jumping up and down. As a 327 I was building a replica of a motor that dyno tested at just over 390 with a six deuce, I hope building a 302 isn't going to sacrifice too much of that.

Rich
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