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Old 04-26-2005, 05:01 PM
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snap ring problem

I'm trying to get a Japanese 5-speed apart. The bearings are installed with snap rings which fit in a groove in the housing id and engage a groove on the bearing od. There is an access area of about 1" x 1/4" to allow you to expand the snap ring to release the bearing. On the mainshaft bearing, the snap ring has a 3/16" gap, no problem gettin in there to release it.

The countershaft bearing suffered major damage and has lost a couple of balls. Probably had way too much thrust load applied. The outer race is still pretty much in shap however, and after grinding a notch on it, will rotate in the aluminum housing. But the snap ring holding it has rotated so that the gap in the ring is now hidden in the groove somewhere. When you push the ring towards the shaft there is a little play, and theoretically you should be able to tell by the relative radial motion at each end of the access cavity where the gap in the ring is relative to the access cavity. In my case I can't see any difference and can't figure out how to gage it even if I had a gage.

I have tried grinding a tiny notch in the ring and using that to slide the ring, but I can get it only to go about 1/2" either way; possibly my grinding has left a burr on the underside that makes it harder to slide. I can't think of how to fix the underside of the ring.

Any suggestions on how to proceed? If I cut thru the ring, I'll never be able to expand it. Once I get the case apart (and the countershaft out of the way) I can cut thru the whole bearing in enough places to remove it in spite of the ring, but getting the bearing off the shaft simutaneously with case removal is another hard problem, as the inner race is damaged and needs serious pulling to come off the shaft.

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Last edited by antiquebob; 04-26-2005 at 05:07 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 04-26-2005, 07:26 PM
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Import car parts are like that....A Pain!

This is a stupid question, but are you using snap ring pliers? I can't think of any other way to remove snap rings without the pliers. They can be put on with a metal pick, but to remove them you need pliers.
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:22 AM
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Sorry bronco, you missed the point: there is no gap to expand with the pliers, it is hidden somewhere in the groove elsewhere than at the access cavity. Actually, with this design (when the ring doesn't unexpectly rotate) you don't need special pliers; any long-nose or even two screw drivers will work because the ring is held everywhere except at this cavity.
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Old 04-27-2005, 06:43 AM
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ring

Man that sounds like a tough one.....

I would have tried rotating the ring like you did, but maybe used a very pointed scribe to rotate it instead of grinding the slot... Can you get the end of a dremmel in the small slot and get the burr off and try rotating it again????

This is tough to think about with out actually seeing the problem... Can you post a picture????? Is the bearing outter race totally enclosed in the case???? No chance of drilling a hole right on top of the housing at the ring location and then getting in to the hole and rotating the ring and then plugging the hole when your finished????? do you have a model and name for this trans????

Keith
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:37 PM
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I'm sorry, I missed that. Yeah show some pics. That way we can see what your problem is and give you an accurate method of fixing the problem.
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Old 04-28-2005, 01:19 AM
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Got the problem solved, a very messy way. Don't have any pics to document this. Solved housing removal by grinding away inner race until I could get the balls out. Was still hard to get ring out even with complete access to outer race as I couldn't actually cut it thru due to geometry. (Had tried using sharp center punch on ring originally. Even ground notches got ripped away without it moving.) Ground down to the groove in the outer race allowing a grip on both sides of ring, but it still wouldn't slide. Even after cutting off several 1/2" pieces and grinding away enough of the outer race to get a firm and hammerable grip on the ring with 10" vicegrips, the other end was locked in. Since the outer race would still rotate, I moved my cut away section until I found the stuck end, and then ground thru the housing destroying that piece of the ring, and then pulled the remainder out of the groove with the vicegrips.

It turn out that this snap ring had "upturned" ends pointing radially outward; I don't know whether that was original or whether it had been damaged during a rebuild 5 years ago. The ring on the mainshaft bearing does not have such ends, it is completely uniform.

I am wondering if one can get fancier snap rings, with little holes in the ends like an o.d. retaining ring. That way soft wire or something could be put in the holes keeping it from rotating.

I still have a pulling problem with the inner race stuck on the countershaft, as standard pullers don't grip on its concave surface and there is not enough clearance between the adjoining gear to grip it there. But I can come up with something.

Thanks for the encouragement!
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:15 AM
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I still have a pulling problem with the inner race stuck on the countershaft, as standard pullers don't grip on its concave surface and there is not enough clearance between the adjoining gear to grip it there. But I can come up with something.

Thanks for the encouragement![/QUOTE]
What you need is called a bearing splitter. It has nothing to do with splitting bearings but has everything to do with getting a bearing off a shaft where the bearing seats against a shoulder or gear and there is no room for a regular puller. your local trans shop will have one.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:24 PM
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Thanks for the reminder. I had seen those but forgotten about them, since I wasn't really going to spend any more money on this.

I discovered the reason a regular puller wouldn't get it off originally (I had tried to pull it off still attached to housing): the inner race was pressed on a spline that engaged the 4th gear synchronizer hub, and was banged up so much that it had deformed into the spline. The previous pulling efforts had created enough of a gap to get pry bars between the gear and race, and doing that enabled a regular puller to engage it. But it wouldn't go more than 1/4", because of the id deformation, until I cut most of the way thru the race!
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