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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2008, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnitz
More importantly, do they even make this stuff in the U.S. anymore?


In a while, Chet.
And that's the point! When people do not buy US-made products, for whatever reason, the makers stop making them.

Did you know that 100 years ago, a watch marked "Swiss Made" was considered to be junk - only "Made in the USA" was considered to be good. In the early 1900's (so I have seen on a few research sites) Rolex had "made in the USA" on the face - and in fact, the face was made in the USA. I have one of my grandfathers old pocket watches, with a "local" brand on the face, and the Rolex marks inside. (It lives in a safe-deposit box now)

By the 1940s, it was the opposite.

In the early 1950's "made in Japan" meant it was junk. By 1959 Sony was changing that. By the mid 60's Asahi (Pentax) was up alongside Nikon as the best anywhere

In the 1970s and 80's. "Made in Taiwan" meant garbage Now I noted earlier on this thread that someone commented about some tools being not too bad, because they were Taiwanese (not Chinese)

Remember the first Korean cars? Now they are right up there in terms of quality according to the reports they get in magazines

Who builds nearly all of the mega-size oil tankers, many of the world's bridges and high-rises, most of the big container ships? (Korea)

If "made in the USA" does really not mean "high quality" any more, then why would anyone buy it? If it does mean quality, then US manufacturers are going to have to do a LOT of marketing - not just appeal to patriotism , but SHOW that their stuff actually IS high quality.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2010, 12:26 AM
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SNAP-ON tools are indeed made in China now! They are cheap.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2010, 06:37 AM
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So is the hidden message here .... stop being a cheep A S S, seek out quality and maybe the US manufactures will come back to home grown ... ?
The cheep A S S that now complains about the cheep products ........ harbor freight, are like the guy that kills his parents and then wants people to feel sorry for him because he has no parents ..........

Some get what they shop and ask for .. rant over
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 02:07 PM
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Y'all don't git it

America has abandoned manufacturing because we are all too wealthy. For the most part, quality of life here is beyond anywhere in the world. Why would people in America want to work in a factory when they relatively find work in the huge plethora of job opportunities in America. We still have the most cutting edge, new and fresh industries.

Made in U.S.A. is still a valued proposition though, because if it does exist, it usually means manufacturing in high quality, low volume product categories with more of a artisan/craftsman feel to cater to niche markets. Example: Tanner Goods

On the other hand, China is hungry. They have a large population that want to work. They are willing to work in a factory in relatively poor conditions to make a living. Average quality of life overall isn't so hot compared to us. They have the man-power, attitude, need, and resources to outperform the U.S..

There are definitely products that come out of China that are of inferior quality. It's because they are very aggressive to getting to the bottom line. "Best bang for the buck" is their logical, efficient method of capitalism. Culture also plays an important part on that mentality.

But you will also see the highest quality products come from China as well. Think Apple. Not even arguably, but factually the highest quality made goods within the electronics world. In terms of materials, engineering, design, processes, the level of execution - all made in China.

It's not that they cannot achieve high quality. It's that they usually target markets they can exploit well, like what you would see at Wal-mart. The biggest margins are there and they are capitalizing on it. We can't hate on them for doing what we invented better. Don't be a hater.

I took a trip to Foxconn and I've seen where they make the bases for Apple's LED Cinema displays. These pieces go through many processes to be formed that way. If you look at them you'll notice a taper on the foot. That is CNC machined. The surface finish is also super hi-end and goes through many different processes to arrive at that hi-en consistent quality. Within that same factory they were making Nokia phone shells that were extremely cheap looking. These shells had a teal color chroma finish that were not intended for a sophisticated market like the U.S. They were made for other foreign markets that saw value in low price vs premium feel.

We shouldn't be disappointed in companies that manufacture overseas. The hard goods business is extremely competitive and to keep a company viable, sometimes it's better to build things in China or anywhere else that can do it well.

If you really care that a product needs to be built in the U.S. and you rant about how companies are 'selling out' (which is irrational & ignorant) you should blame your self. You are guaranteed to have made some buying decisions based on price value. (which is rational & smart)
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:16 PM
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Not all Matco tools are made in USA. Screwdrivers say Germany right on them. I have a Matco tool cart made in China. Cornwell Mac snap on and blue point all have the same cart they just say their name on it. All bought from the same China manufacture.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:18 PM
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Everyone is shipping overseas. Fact is all your top tool manufacturers will back the tool. That's the important part to me.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2016, 09:45 PM
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Nice sold tools for last 25 years of my life. Years ago the real serious mechanics used to buy snap on, stahlwille, sk Wayne, these were top quality and you paid for that. In my opinion snap on would only have about 10% of the market here if even that much. The majority of tools now are made in China and sold under other brands or are just unbranded. Powerbuilt is a big seller here, which last I heard was ex China. Koken is still popular and low range sidchrome. The dollar talks nowadays from all my experience. In fact the tool market is that tight I've gone away from selling them as it has little profit.

Just my 2 cents

Later gator
Russ
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 12:02 AM
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One thing to be considered in choosing anything - while Country of Origin (COO) can be considered to be one of the indicators of perceived quality - underlying the actual origin of the tool is a more fundamental issue - where do the MATERIALS come from?

If a tool is "made in the USA" - where did the steel it is made out of come from?

If a tool is "unacceptable" because the wrench bends in use, the jaws on the pliers are too flimsy, the cutters on wire cutters are too soft - what difference does it make where the wrench was made if the steel is flawed?

Many items manufactured in one country are made from steel imported from another country

Is a tool "made in the USA" out of Chinese steel always better than one where the tool and the steel are both Chinese?
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 06:13 AM
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Ahhh how these threads from ancient history (2008) return for another round.

Most local steel And even aluminum) here says made on Canada where it's rolled or drawn to dimension but even that's imported raw stock that comes from POSCO, a Korean company.

As far as tools - most companies are bottom line oriented which means that the investors want a dividend (profit) on the dollars they let companies 'use'. That means the product is manufactured where it can be done the cheapest. I can't afford to buy Snap-On, S-K or even MAC these days so end up at Home Depot, Lowe's Harbor Freight or Sears. Are they the same quality - maybe, but I'm a hobby user these days so if I break something, it doesn't matter as much. My Snap-On drawer, full of wrenches and sockets, still gets well used but the Craftsman hanging on the pegboard does too (I think those say Made in USA).

A couple Pogo's statements about the sad state of affairs and what has happened to Western manufacturing:


“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

― Walt Kelly

“Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohow permanent.”

-- Walt Kelly

For you younger guys, Pogo was a cartoon character by Walt Kelly that lasted to 1973.

Dave W
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave57210 View Post
One thing to be considered in choosing anything - while Country of Origin (COO) can be considered to be one of the indicators of perceived quality - underlying the actual origin of the tool is a more fundamental issue - where do the MATERIALS come from?

If a tool is "made in the USA" - where did the steel it is made out of come from?

If a tool is "unacceptable" because the wrench bends in use, the jaws on the pliers are too flimsy, the cutters on wire cutters are too soft - what difference does it make where the wrench was made if the steel is flawed?

Many items manufactured in one country are made from steel imported from another country

Is a tool "made in the USA" out of Chinese steel always better than one where the tool and the steel are both Chinese?
The gray are has indeed gotten wider. Cheap tools have gotten much better, and expensive tools have gotten worse, leaving that gray area getting wider and wider. There are still out and out junk at Harbor Freight, and amazing art on the SnapOn truck but they are both getting fewer and fewer.

The SnapOn truck (yes I go into one often as well as Mac and Matco) is still full of great stuff but a lot of it, even the better stuff can be bought at Lowes or even HF! And yes they have a bunch of cheaper "value line" stuff that is without a doubt not any better than the stuff at Lowes or Sears, not one bit better and still costs you a hell of a lot more!

That all being said, it's hard for the newbe to know the difference. Which is a shame as I have said before, the newbe could blame his skills when it's the tools fault!

He could go and buy a cutting tool like tin snips at HF and they POS won't cut paper. While spending the big bucks on the Wiss would make him look like a pro. Where as a die grinder from HF is going to do about the same thing for your average garage guy as the SnapOn one that costs literally 10x as much!

So it's a hard call, you can't ever go wrong buying the "quality" stuff as it will always be worth darn near what you paid for it, or much more 30 years from now. You just can't go wrong, if you can afford it.

Brian
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 07:43 AM
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On the whole Chinese made quality, holy crap is there a huge gray area there! Do we really think there is a difference quality wise between a USA and Chinese made Vice Grip?

The Irwin "made" Vice Grip....



Is still one of the greatest tools ever made. The quality is still top notch, even though a few years ago after being made in America for decades manufacturing went overseas to China. It tears my heart to think of this, and I refuse to buy one (I have 37 already) but it's not because of quality, it's because of where the money is going.

Those Chinese made SnapOn tools are similar, depending on if it's the "high end" or the "Value line" (Bluepoint) makes all the difference, and Chinese doesn't mean "Chinese" with everything, the high end stuff made there is still super high quality.

I have posted pictures here of the GM parts made in China, Korea and the like. That new 2016 Camaro Z28 has a LOT of parts made overseas! How about the Bowtie it's self in the grill....Chinese!

Brian
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 08:21 AM
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with our tax structure there will be nothing left here soon.

heres one for you , justin boots are now made in china. i made the mistake of buying a pair of them. they a pure junk. cant break in , the stove pipe on one is so small i can barely get my foot in it. same style and number i have worn for 30 years .
mexico is overtaking china because of nafta .
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 09:04 AM
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I quit buying Justin's for the same reason and the fact that the leather splits in the creases, pure junk. I bought Dan Post for my last pair, first pair some 40 years ago were made in Spain, now in Mexico.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:20 AM
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And with your testimonies maybe I am wrong on the Chinese Vice-Grips. Anyone here have a pair next to the USA ones and have had any problem?

I am forgetting the one example I have, my Giants World Series 2010 hat that I bought at the first WS game that year. I got the same size as my last hat, what is there to think about? The damn thing is tight, it is smaller than my old one, yep you guessed it, made in China! I have checked now and they are made in America so they didn't completely change. I have to assume they ordered them before they had won the playoffs to have for sale at the park and got the cheaper Chinese ones. Still ticks me off as it is just not as comfortable as my old one but it means so much to me I still wear it.

Brian
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2016, 10:47 AM
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i'm sick of people blaming the americans for not buying american made. first off there is no american made . put the blame squarely where it belongs. washington dc . our tax structure has caused all this and the weak useless leaders in washington make bad deal after bad deal. and before you blame those big evil corporations keep in mind most are owned by you and your 401k .
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