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Old 12-19-2006, 11:20 PM
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So called "show quality paint"????

I recently went to two big national shows this past summer, Chryslers at Carlisle and Macungie Pa. speciffically to see for myself what kind of workmanship these high end resto shops are turning out. Mostly what I was looking for was the body & paint work. Now I figured to myself if there are any cars that should have the "best" paint work available, it would have to be the most valuble ones on the planet.......matching numbers hemi cudas, challengers, and the such. Now just remember that these muscle cars are pulling high six figures and a few in the 7 digits, in my opinion these should be the best of the best. Well let me tell you I was not all that impressed with what I saw. Seems most of these cars were blocked out decent from the body line up but very poor from the body line down. Prior to the show I visited a few resto web sites and I must say there work looked fantastic in there pics (wont mention any names) but not so in person. Then I came to a shop that had 7 cars on display with the quality level I was expecting to see on many more cars, these things were the straightest that I have seen in years, from the roofline to the rocker panels dead flat ultra straight from every possible angle. The name of the shop was Aloha dream cars out of wisconson. I had a chance to talk with the shop owner for a bit and spoke of the disappointment for the lack of quality in most of these high end shops that are getting in the six digits to restore these cars. Now dont get me wrong the detail work on suspensions, engine compartments, interiors and the such were pretty compatable from shop to shop, I was mainly focusing on the finish exterior paintwork. Seven cars out of whatever they had Im guessing a thousand, not a very good percentage. Does one particular shop spend more hours blocking than most, any one out there who has seen there work will know exactly what I am talking about. I do understand that not every one can afford a six figure resto, but the average for a job like that is pretty close in comparison thru out the industry. Why the difference so much in quality? I guess all I am trying to say is that why dont more guys go the extra mile in blocking and buffing for that ultra show quality paint job. After all once it is painted you would rather not go back and say I wish I spent a little (or lot) more time on that area. Well I have never been out west to see in person the workmanship out there, but would love to see how it compares to what I have seen so far...........

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Old 12-19-2006, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mr4speed
Does one particular shop spend more hours blocking than most,...


yes
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:40 PM
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show quality paint

There is a shop my buddy works for here in OK that actually buffs the floorpans! Mind you, they only do a few cars a year and are expensive. It could be that these shops are more concerned with period-correctness than with show quality. I once read of a Corvette restorer who put drips in the valve cover paint to simulate the way G.M. used to paint them on vertical racks. It may have something to do with the way the factory sent the cars out.?
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:34 AM
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This is something that I have brought up before and gotten lamb based over. I am sorry, I have seen the exact same thing. Heck, get down on the ground and look up at the rockers of some of these "show cars" build by "restoration shops", you will see plastic filler or primer with no paint on it! If it isn't seen standing there next to the car, it isn't detailed.

Now, in their defense THAT is how most of these cars are looked at. They are not analyzed like you or I would do, they just aren't. They are really "good enough" if you want to be honest. But don't tell me you do such great work and so much different than a "common" collision shop would, you don't.

REAL detail takes a lot of time. I have seen it, darn tootin, there are shops out there that do it. But they are very few and far between.

I can see what you are saying fiddy two, sure I can accept that a "restored" car is not going to have the "custom" detail as a rod or custom would. But it should have the "detail" none the less. You should be able to see every single spot weld clearly for example. THAT is one thing that makes a "restored car" to me.

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Old 12-20-2006, 07:52 AM
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Now, in their defense THAT is how most of these cars are looked at. They are not analyzed like you or I would do, they just aren't. They are really "good enough" if you want to be honest.

I do hear what you are saying and I too am amazed at how many people will look at a wavy car and say "boy now that is a straight car", are they looking at the same thing that I am. Many out there really dont have a clue what top notch paint work really is, or should I say dont really care. I myself when doing a full on paintjob will go the extra mile in blocking out till dead flat which is very time consuming and fatiging, but that is just the way I am. I recently have just finished a 67 vette that was an original 38,000 mile car so I started with a really nice piece. Still this thing took me about 700 hours to complete. Is it straight you better beleive it. Perfect fitting door gaps which is unheard of on these cars. A lot of work , yes it is but that is the difference when the car is finished and anyone who really knows what they are looking will see this. It really does come down to how far you want to go and how much time you would want to spend. I personally just cant stand buffing a car unless the body is flawless, after all that is the only thing paint really does is magnify the bodywork.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:18 AM
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Some times people get confused about the difference between a paint job and a restoration. You can have a nice repaint for $5,000.00 but to restore one would be very expensive. To make a muscle car show quality and perfect is over restoring. They were full of flaws and misalignments when new. To make a car flawless could easily take 500 hrs. 500 x $60.00 per hr =$30,000.00 just in labor.
Bob
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:25 AM
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I see the same thing at the shows I visit. Its rare to see decent quality bodywork anymore. I think part of it is that what's coming out of the auto manufacturers is so pathetic, that all people do is try to make their car look better than a new car, which isn't hard.

When you do see top-notch bodywork, in my experience, its on oddball cars - cars where the owner has a personal interest in making it perfect and maybe has more time than money - and not necessarily on the show winners, most expensive, or most desireable vehicles.

I think another thing is education. I came from a family of gearheads who did their own painting for years. From an early age, I was taught what to look for. If you can't see the flaws, you can't fix them. I think most people just haven't been trained to see what quality work looks like.

Just MHO...
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:36 AM
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in restoration you can not make the car better than factory. a laser straight early vette is destroyed as far as original goes. you must return it to it's original condition. the waves and imperfections must remain. i have had to regelcoat a vette because it had been redone by some custom shop that knew nothing about restorations.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:11 AM
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I think most people just haven't been trained to see what quality work looks like.


I do beleive you hit the nail right on the head, you are correct if you havent seen the quality of say aloha for example then a run of the mill average paint job in my opinion, now becomes "show quality". Over restoring is a good point to bring up, if one is happy with the defects that a car had when new, then that is fine with me. This corvette for example, the owner knew that these cars were very wavy when new, and wanted it as good as it could possible be, he just could not stand looking at all those ripples and poor panel alignment. On the other hand the guy he bought this car from who has a private collection of ridiculously low milage vettes in original paint, cant see making one this good. So its up to the owners preference and each person has there own definition of "show quality".
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:16 PM
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Is it just me or is there just something un-natural about perfectly flat planes across different panels on a car? Doesn't a natural "bow" occur along the edges when panels are pressed at the factory? I guess that makes a car "perfect" when they build up the edges so there is a perfectly flat trasition between doors, quaters, trunks and hoods. I know it looks nice to have a perfectly flat relfection as the car drives by, but does it loose some of it's "metal" apprearance?
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
in restoration you can not make the car better than factory. a laser straight early vette is destroyed as far as original goes. you must return it to it's original condition. the waves and imperfections must remain. i have had to regelcoat a vette because it had been redone by some custom shop that knew nothing about restorations.

thtas right. there is a corvette resto shop around here and thats all they do is those ncrs cars. i know the painter and he said its such a pia. you will spend all this time and effeort on the car then goto a show and the judges tell you the chrome and paint are too shiney. me personally i just can get into replicating factory crap but thats just because i am not interested in that stuff. being a custom painter i am just used to making everything as flawless as possible. each way you go is an artform in itself. however shoddy work on something thats should be "show quality" is just poor craftsmanship
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mrcleanr6
thats right. there is a corvette resto shop around here and thats all they do is those ncrs cars. i know the painter and he said its such a pia. you will spend all this time and effeort on the car then goto a show and the judges tell you the chrome and paint are too shiney. me personally i just can get into replicating factory crap but thats just because i am not interested in that stuff. being a custom painter i am just used to making everything as flawless as possible. each way you go is an artform in itself. however shoddy work on something thats should be "show quality" is just poor craftsmanship
-------------------------------------------------------------------

My favorite saying is a Restoration painter would not last at a Chevy dealer for two weeks and a Chevy painter would never last as a Restoration painter.
It is just two completely different worlds.

A few years ago I had a corvette fuelie that had never been wrecked or repainted, so I redid the whole car, showed it twice to get a few awards for value purposes.
Listed it in Hemmings for top buck. A guy from Ohio flew down who owned three big collision centers, now remember I said the car was a 100 pointer and perfect in my ad!
First thing he does is look down the side and says son, you really need to buy yourself a long block. I didn't even have time to catch my breath and he says you have over spray in the engine compartment.
That is when I caught my breath and said do you know anything about vettes? Yes I have two new ones!

I explained to him that no block touched this car, anywhere all hand Palm sanding and showed him the other overspray under the car.
So after explaining he said you could never work in my bodyshop as he did not believe a word I said and left.

He checked out my story and called the next day and wired the money.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:40 PM
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Im with Mrcleanr6 on this one, as I too can not get into replicating that factory garbage. If you are going to spend the time and money redoing a car then do it to the best of your ability, give it 110 percent. As for the corvette hardcores all I can say is drop it off at Earl Shieb and they should do an excellent job of duplicating that "factory look".
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:54 PM
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i've seen very few custom shops that could do a restoration . it's more work than you think . in restoration we have guidelines we must follow . i'm doing a 57 restomod corvette right now and the body will never have any value as a restored car. too straight. custom work is easy , you just fix everything.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:32 PM
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oh yes!! like i said there is an art to both sides. it takes that special kind of person to do each and one usually cant do the other. atleast i couldn't.
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