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Old 01-11-2006, 11:15 AM
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So, who is at fault?

Jon, I know this may be more suited for the BS forum, move it if you like. I just figured being it is "body shop" related, but really the issue is the same in any driveway.

Ok guys, we have an apprentice backing a car into the shop. To get to the shop you have a 50' driveway with cars parked in spaces like a regular parking lot on one side and the parts office (a "shed shop building) on the other side. The parts get delivered out in front of the office in a 15x25 foot area, leaving a 15ish foot drive way to the shop. The parts guy removes a truck quarter panel from the box (black primer) sets it IN that 15 foot driveway (leaving about 10') on the black asphalt. And as a side note, he has done this since he came here, a year or so ago, setting parts in the way of production. I have been telling him (we have almost came to blows over this) not to do it.

You guessed it, the young apprintice drove over the quarter.

I say the parts guy is 90% at fault and the other guy 10%. The production manager says it is the other way around.

His thinking being, "what if it were a guy laying there". I say BULL, there is a "reasonable expectation" that the drive way donesn't have a hidden trap in it. Likewise there is a "reasonable expectation" if you set a part IN a driveway it will get ran over. On that note, if YOU lay down in a driveway you have a "reasonable expectation" YOU will be ran over.

What do you guys think?

Brian

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Old 01-11-2006, 11:31 AM
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I agree, if you put something in the driveway, than you run the risk of it being driven on. The fault is that of the parts delivery guy. I just hope that the apprentice does not get fired over this. I say the parts supplier should replace the part at no cost to you. and advise his driver on the proper handling of the parts. just my .02

Steve
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Old 01-11-2006, 11:48 AM
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A few of my thoughts:

1) That's why it's called a "driveway", it's not called a "partslaydownway" right?

2) What if a customer backed in and he ran over it, wouldn't he say "why did you put that part in my way, not my fault"

3) If you keep telling your kid not to park his bike behind your car and one dark night you backup and squash it, wouldn't you blame it on him for putting it there?

Anyway, I think the parts guy is at fault. He's just lucky it didn't happen sooner!
Dan B.
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Old 01-11-2006, 11:50 AM
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I pulled out of a parking lot and while looking left turned right.
There was a car parked outside the parking lot but not on the road I was turning into.
My passenger door hit his rear bumper and damaged it.
While he was illegally parked, and was ticketed by the police I was at fault for hitting him as I was in charge of the moving vehicle.
I reckon while the delivery guy placed the part irresponsebly in the driveway it was the apprentices responsibilty to be aware.
Have an area cordoned off and well signed that deliveries must be placed within it or they (the delivery guy) will be held responsible for damages.
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Old 01-11-2006, 11:54 AM
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The fact you have told him plenty of times not to do it and he keeps doing it is enough to fire his ars in my opinion.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:04 PM
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Boy, this is one of those that I can see both sides to
I'd have to side with you Brian, if I was pushed for a decision.
But it's a " no winner" situation.
The part shouldn't have been there, but the driver
should have been looking too. I don't know.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:12 PM
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Good chance for you bodymen to show your stuff....straighten it out......

In our plant we have to "Idiot Proof" everything, so people won't run into stuff with the tow motors. We have tried everything...training, discipline, etc..........it keeps happening.

Both guys are at fault.................Bet that parts don't get left there anymore.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:21 PM
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IMO both of them are at fault. Its your responsibility if you run over something because your supposed to be watching where your driving, and it the other guys fault because you told him several times already not to put parts there.
If this had been the first time the guy sat parts there it maybe a little different, but because you told him before means that he didn't listen.



Brad
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:21 PM
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Take it to Judge Judy. I would like to see the outcome there.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
"Take it to Judge Judy. I would like to see the outcome there."
Oh Boy, I was wondering how long it would take us to get the judges/lawyers involved!

Anyway, yes there are valid arguments on both sides. Usually that means a settlement that both are at fault and the cost is split. Nobody gets fired I hope.

Quote:
"His thinking being, "what if it were a guy laying there". I say BULL, there is a "reasonable expectation" that the drive way donesn't have a hidden trap in it. Likewise there is a "reasonable expectation" if you set a part IN a driveway it will get ran over. On that note, if YOU lay down in a driveway you have a "reasonable expectation" YOU will be ran over."
Reminds me of a story here in New Jersey that happened several months ago. A couple of high school girls saw some movie where the kids laid down in the middle of the road to get a cheap thrill....well guess what, they tried it in the middle of the night and got smooshed by an SUV. I think they lived, and the driver didn't get a ticket. Not his fault!

Dan B
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:44 PM
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Funny, I've actually done that before, about ten years ago to a new Honda fender. The shop door faced north, and the sun and shade were arranged such that the part was effectively invisible through the light dust on the windshield. Bottom line, I paid for the fender, not because I ran it over, but because I PUT IT THERE!

P.S. Depending on visibilty conditions, it's almost entirely the parts driver's fault, IMHO.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:52 PM
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fault

I'll probably be the odd man out on this but i feel it the drivers fault. What if a customer would have passed out and fallen in the drive way???? Then your driver with-out looking ran over him or her???? I feel you need to be aware of whats going on around your car at all times, even in the driveway,,, The parts guy is still a idiot for putting it there. The fact that you have warned him before tells me everybody should be extra alert for parts in the way when he is there.....

Now if the kid would have been in the truck and the guy threw it under his wheels or something stupid like that then it's a different story....

My vote; the parts guy is an idiot for doing it but it's the kids fault....

Keith
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:56 PM
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Never park your bicycle on the railroad tracks, and never set your newly restored fenderskirts on some cardboard sitting on the floor of the shop.

The guy who placed the part where vehicles move in and out is at fault, bottom line. Not all objects are visable when backing a vehicle out unless there's a rearview mounted camera.

Brian, you've been around the shop for enough years to see this coming before it happened, it's a shame the parts guy didn't take your recomendation seriously. Bob
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Old 01-11-2006, 02:18 PM
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[QUOTE=MARTINSR]The parts guy removes a truck quarter panel from the box (black primer) sets it IN that 15 foot driveway (leaving about 10') on the black asphalt


It it was something visable then yes its the drivers fault with out a doubt. But since it wasnt and the delivery man had been warned then I say its all on him.
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Old 01-11-2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malc
I pulled out of a parking lot and while looking left turned right.
There was a car parked outside the parking lot but not on the road I was turning into.
My passenger door hit his rear bumper and damaged it.
While he was illegally parked, and was ticketed by the police I was at fault for hitting him as I was in charge of the moving vehicle.
I reckon while the delivery guy placed the part irresponsebly in the driveway it was the apprentices responsibilty to be aware.
Have an area cordoned off and well signed that deliveries must be placed within it or they (the delivery guy) will be held responsible for damages.
Similar thing happened to my aunt in Ontario. Raining very hard, guy parked illegally under a no parking sign at a convience store with a black car at night. She backed up from her spot facing the store and hears a crunch. Luckily she got a nice cop who said that while legally it would be called a 50/50 accident and both parties would be fined. She saw how invisible the car was out of the rear view, and said she would write it up but "fix" it so that the ticket would never make it through court if my aunt fights it.

Coolest thing I've ever heard of a cop doing.
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