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Old 04-22-2005, 12:17 PM
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Social Security.

We all know Social Security is screwed. We all know it needs fixing. What could be done?
I don't know if privatization is the answer, but i really do think I could get a better return with my money in my hands than in the federal governments hands. at least if i didn't, I'd have no one but myself to blame.

Ideas?

http://www.house.gov/writerep/
http://www.senate.gov/index.htm

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Old 04-22-2005, 12:45 PM
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[QUOTE=crazy larry]We all know Social Security is screwed. We all know it needs fixing. What could be done?
I don't know if privatization is the answer, but i really do think I could get a better return with my money in my hands than in the federal governments hands. at least if i didn't, I'd have no one but myself to blame.
ideas?

************************************************** ****

Yes I have one idea! Send me every penny I ever was forced to put in INTEREST FREE (gov keeps the interest) and I will sign a statement that I will never take or ask the Govt for any handouts ever!

OR:
If I must be forced to be in this scam than I want the govt employees that are exempt like the senators to be forced to donate!
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Old 04-22-2005, 01:03 PM
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Well I think this gets everyone boiling mad, but hay lifes to short!
And as far as Im concerned about taxes and SS, screw them! Theyll get theirs soon enough! Everyone gets their turn at some point.

Rick.
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Old 04-22-2005, 02:09 PM
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Larry-
The answer really is simple.
1.) Eliminate SSDI robbing from SSI.
2.) Eliminate dependants getting a check if their parents are disabled
3.) Correct Workmans Comp. This is involved, but starts with Medical Malpractice reform. If a W/C Doc sends someone back to work, and they reinjure themselves, the Doc faces malpractice.
"If I were King"... I would have a Medical Review Board assess each claim. Any "borderline" claims would be sent back to work with limited restrictions. Anyone receiving Full Disability, would have to show up at a meeting place for the same 8 hours as regular workers. In todays technological world, the blind can "see" with talking computers. The deaf can communicate with TDD. There is virtually SOMETHING for everyone. There would be VERY FEW exceptions. The place would be a sort of "Job Shop" where employers could use this for executing menial tasks. The reason is twofold. One, being that the person (fakers, in general) could not "hang around" home, and goof off. Or work a second job under the table. They would have to show up, just like a job, or not get a check. The other, is it would train them for other work. The employers could utilize reduced costs for "jobbing it out" to the State. Costs could be negotiated. The W/C & SSDI has already been paid, so it give the State a chance to recoup cash.
4.) We need to reign in the Law Profession. We need to re-evaluate our other Social Programs, and limit the term you can stay on it. We need to find a better solution to put people back to work. I would also say that the "unemployed" should also hit this shop 3/5 days, with the other 2 days ACTIVELY looking for work,if they want the benefits.

I should be King...


Barry
Check this link out
http://reed.senate.gov/socialsecuritymyth.htm
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:44 PM
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I should be King...


Barry
Check this link out
http://reed.senate.gov/socialsecuritymyth.htm[/QUOTE]

***********************************************
Well guess I was wrong!
It does make me feel better!
BWK
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Old 04-22-2005, 05:39 PM
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Beenawaytolong
You got my vote
Hey BarryK if you want you can be king also but I want that much in retirement (minimum of 41,000) I could almost live on that!!!!!
30dee
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Old 04-22-2005, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30desoto
Beenawaytolong
You got my vote
Hey BarryK if you want you can be king also but I want that much in retirement (minimum of 41,000) I could almost live on that!!!!!
30dee
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Hey!
Us Kings will take care of you! Trust us!!!
Barry
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Old 04-22-2005, 05:49 PM
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Who decided that these jobs should pay $87,900 a year? Why do they get paid so much? The job consists of voting, complaining, arguing and golfing?

It kills me to vote in any election because I don't get to see a resume' before I make the decision to cast a hiring vote. All I get to see is diligent opponent bashing and empty promise making.

Why?

I want to see voting records for the candidates along with a list of each ones accomplishments. I'll bet that none of us like much of what we see. We're the employers, why can't we subject them to the same scrutiny that we get subjected to in an interview process?

Larry
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:00 PM
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Larry,
A better question is why do they spend 25-50 million dollars to get a job that pays that kind of salary?

Where else can you make those wages and turn into an instant millionaire?
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Larry,
A better question is why do they spend 25-50 million dollars to get a job that pays that kind of salary?

Where else can you make those wages and turn into an instant millionaire?
No sh....uhhh poop.

Larry
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:27 PM
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I need to change the title of this thread to "things that need fixing."

there ought to be tighter restrictions on campaign finance. no way on Gods green earth, should there ever be millions of dollars spent on an election.
one million ought to be enough for all candidates. take the big money out of being a politician. and base the campaign on background, like the resume idea.
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Old 04-23-2005, 08:53 AM
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Yes, social security is a dilemma. But would Beenaway's solution solve the problem. (Not trying to pick on you Beenaway - many agree with you, so I'm just using your well articulated solution to ask some questions and make a general rebuttal. Nothing personal intended.)

[QUOTE=Beenaway2long]
The answer really is simple.
1.) Eliminate SSDI robbing from SSI. [QUOTE]

Total social security benefit payments (for 2004) were 497 billion. Of that amount approximately 78 billion went to disabled recipients. Even if you assumed all disable people are fakers and you eliminated disability totally, you now have a $419 billion social security problem rather than a $497 billion problem. Still a pretty big gorilla.

[QUOTE]2.) Eliminate dependents getting a check if their parents are disabled[QUOTE]

Dependents receive benefits if they are under the age of 18 - the theory being an underage child who is required by state law to be in school rather than working should not suffer the consequences of their parent(s) being disabled and unable to provide for food, clothing, and shelter. Possibly you are correct that the children should pay the price, be taken out of school, and go to work to provide for their own welfare. But wouldn't we just end up with more uneducated and unemployed people that way?

[QUOTE] 3.) Correct Workmans Comp. This is involved, but starts with Medical Malpractice reform. If a W/C Doc sends someone back to work, and they re-injure themselves, the Doc faces malpractice.[QUOTE]

If this rule were in place, what doctor in his/her right mind would EVER certify that a worker was able to go back to work. Seems to me this would have the exact opposite effect of what you want to accomplish.

[QUOTE] "If I were King"... I would have a Medical Review Board assess each claim. Any "borderline" claims would be sent back to work with limited restrictions.[QUOTE]

I'm not sure this as far from what is already in place. Currently disability claims must be supported by a medical doctor. For the first six months the doctor must certify that the worker is unable to perform the duties of his/her profession. This certification is then reviewed by medical personnel at SS and a determination made regarding disability. At the end of six months a doctor must certify that the worker is unable to perform ANY duties, in other words, unable to do any work whatsoever. This certification also must be reviewed by SS medical personnel using standards stipulated in what SS calls "The Blue Book" which was written by teams of medical professionals with expertise in each area of disability. Any claim which does not fully meet these specific standards (i.e. borderline) is required to return to work. Any appeal of such a ruling is reviewed by a medical review board.

[QUOTE] Anyone receiving Full Disability, would have to show up at a meeting place for the same 8 hours as regular workers. In todays technological world, the blind can "see" with talking computers. The deaf can communicate with TDD. There is virtually SOMETHING for everyone.[QUOTE]

And who is going to provide the care for all these people gathered together in some room somewhere? The mentally ill, the insane, the armless, the legless, those on dialysis, those who soil themselves with regularity. And how do we get them all assembled in this little room every day? Do we provide handicapped equipped vehicles that go to each door? Do we provide supervision to and from the gathering site? Do we require their relatives or friends to take off work to drive them to and from the center. Do we take them to their daily or weekly medical appointments, rehab centers, or treatment facilities? I can't imagine providing care for one totally disabled person much less a hundred of them in the same room. Oh, and BTW, deafness is not considered a disability by SS.

[QUOTE]The place would be a sort of "Job Shop" where employers could use this for executing menial tasks. [QUOTE]

A similar concept was tried some years ago by a number of prison systems with disastrous results. The biggest objection came from the business community who claimed unfair competitive practices were putting them out of business. The assumption here is that there is a massive amount of menial work which needs to be done and that business will be just delighted to somehow pick up that work, put it in a van, haul it over to the "disability center", pay the center to do it, go back and pick it up later, haul it back to the place of business, and hire staff to go over the work to make sure it was done correctly. For most businesses, this would be a logistical nightmare. And would you turn your business's paperwork over to social security? Social Security can't even keep its own paperwork straight much less yours.

[QUOTE] The reason is twofold. One, being that the person (fakers, in general) could not "hang around" home, and goof off. Or work a second job under the table. They would have to show up, just like a job, or not get a check.[QUOTE]

Unfortunately, all of this "showing up just like a job" requires supervision - not to mention space rental, utilities, insurance, equipment (to do all those menial tasks requires computers, typewriters, copy machines, desks, chairs etc., etc, etc.). But these are not able bodied workers, at least many of them are not. So supervision, special equipment, and overhead costs are going to skyrocket. Theoretically, you could end up with a solution which costs more than the problem.

[QUOTE] The other, is it would train them for other work. [QUOTE]

But you just said all this "job shop" will do is the menial work that employers don't want to do in house. So won't you end up with a bunch of people trained to do the very work that no employer wants to hire somebody to do? And if you have all these "job shops" doing this menial work, why would an employer hire someone graduating from the job shop trained to do the work you are already farming out to the job shop. Now if you are talking about adding on a additional "real" skill training, on top of the menial labor stuff, we already have that system in place. It's called Vocational Rehabilitation. And disabled individuals (if they are ambulatory and capable) are required to be tested by VR for their potential skills and then placed in training programs where applicable.

[QUOTE] We need to find a better solution to put people back to work. [QUOTE]

Couldn't agree with you more.

Sorry to get a little cranky about this thread but I have a sister-in-law who is totally disabled due to mental defect. She requires nearly constant medical attention and lives in a special facility equipped to meet her needs. So I take a bit of offense when people claim that all disabled people are fakers or cheats. I agree that social security and disability are going to be a major problem in the future. But I am of the opinion that, for the most part, disability and aging are REAL problems and require well crafted, well thought out solutions which will remedy the problem not simply sweep it under the carpet or toss our elderly and affirmed out into the street.

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Old 04-23-2005, 09:42 AM
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Im interested in crazy larry's view on this. Aren't you a healthcare provider larry?

K
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:30 PM
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i think the ONE thing the government ought to be more involved in, is health care. there is a fortune to be made/saved in the heath care field. and in this country, NO ONE ought to be without medical care/coverage of some sort. but. ..... how do you weed out the malingerers from the people who have real problems. I had to transport a patient 75 miles once, to a meeting with a review board so this vegetated patient could get a chair he could sit in. he was contracted to the point of nothing you or i could have sat in would have worked. the insurance company wouldn't take the word of his family, his doctor, etc. so we loaded him up in an ambulance, and went on a road trip. we rolled him into the office on a stretcher, the lady said, and i quote, "I can't believe you had to bring him in here like that. all you had to do was tell us he was like that." his mom, who rode with us, (nicest 'christian' type lady you'd ever meet) ripped her a new one. we were there less than five minutes. for every one legitimate case, you probably have twenty or more bs cases. at least. people put more effort into getting out of doing an honest days work, than the days work would have required.

as far as SS goes, i do not even have a clue as to what would work. I do know that SS will not be there when i get ready for it. at this point in time, according to my last SS benefits statement, I'll have to work till i'm 67 before i can take partial benefit early retirement, at 72, i can retire with full benefits..(I plan on being dead by then.).. which are going to be reduced, how much is unknown, likely won't be anything left by then..... so like i said, if i'm gonna be screwed out of MY money that is supposed to be for MY retirement, it ought to be by me, not the fed. govt.


another thing, government workers. they work for us. they treat you like your dirt for needing any assistance. they wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for the less fortunate. THAT IS YOUR JOB. HELPING THE UNFORTUNATE. DO YOUR DAMN JOB. that's all you have to do.
when i was in nursing school, we applied for food stamps. my wife worked 40-48 hours a week, I went to school full time, and worked 40 hours on the weekend. (yes, 40 hours in a 48 hour period.{home health} even today, i work 32 hours of the 48 hour weekend.) the lady on the other side of the desk made my life hell. I ended up in a conference with her and her supervisor. I asked her if she gave everyone who came into her office for help, this much grief and lack of help, and if most people who came into her office were students working full time, supporting four kids. she said nothing. her supervisor intervened, and gave us full benefits for 12 months. He saw how i was treated and stated to me, "Your doing all you can to make your life better, and you don't deserve to have to come in here and put up with this crap."

this is the greatest country in the world. or rather was. and a dying cancer patient can't get time off from work to go to chemo. ( a lady i worked with.) she ended up having a stroke, her son called the ****** hole we work at, and the supervisor told him SHE needed to call him. SHE IS IN ICU AND NONRESPONSIVE YOU JACKARSE!!!!! people just need to start using their God given intelligence. but at least she's getting her chemo now. maybe it's a good thing she's in a coma. no side effects to the chemo....

any psych majors out there recognize the thought pattern?


looks like flight of Ideas to me. Is that eligible for a check?
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:31 PM
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Crazy Larry...you don't sound so crazy after all.

Dewey
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