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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastwood Expert
Q: "Doesn't Water + Bare Steel = Rust... I know its not going to pit in the hour it might take you to go from prep to etch or epoxy, but it will form an oxide very quickly. Correct?? "

A: ...The key is clean hot water with a damp (not soaking wet) cloth. The cloth is damp enough to remove the residue but not leave the metal wet; the reason the water is hot is to promote immediate evaporation and prevent the reaction of steel and water!

In the time it takes to wipe down the residue (as previously described) then Prep, using a phosphate-based metal prep product, you would not encounter rust.
Thanks for all the great advice. A couple follow-up questions and some advice please. I've read that high-pressure hot water or steam is used to clean the shell after paint-stripping in a caustic vat.

I have a commercial Sioux Combination Cleaner... high pressure cold, hot or steam. Can I use steam, followed by dry compressed air (refrigerated air-dryer to be installed) to remove the soda film before prepping for primer?

Also what are the pros & cons of using soda vs. poly bead media for paint-stripping flat body panels?

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastwood Expert
Q: "Doesn't Water + Bare Steel = Rust
I know its not going to pit in the hour it might take you to go from prep to etch or epoxy, but it will form an oxide very quickly. Correct?? "

A: Great question! And you would expect me to say "Correct." But, remember what my father said, "When all else fails... read the instructions - TWICE!"
The key is clean hot water with a damp (not soaking wet) cloth. The cloth is damp enough to remove the residue but not leave the metal wet; the reason the water is hot is to promote immediate evaporation and prevent the reaction of steel and water!

In the time it takes to wipe down the residue (as previously described) then Prep, using a phosphate-based metal prep product, you would not encounter rust.
Great post!! Thanks for all your information, and putting up with my devil's advocating

One more question. After my previous post I got to studying on Plastic Media Blasting. And noticed it doesn't cut rust and you need a second more abrasive media (i.e. garnet, fine sand??, something with more tooth) will soda take care of the rust?
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:55 AM
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Dough88: Soda Blasting on the Cheap -- question

Q: So for a guy that already has a Clarke pressure blaster and wants to blast soda, what parts would you recommend (I'm assuming a desiccant system) that would optimize the performance of your soda blasting retrofit kit?

A: The answer depends on whether you are a occasional hobbyist, avid user or professional. For the occasional user (1 project a year), I recommend a Two Stage Coalescing Regulator System. If you are an avid or professional, I suggest a Four Stage System; the larger system is worth the investment.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:28 PM
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tyler71385

C: "Thanks for all your information, and putting up with my devil's advocating"
R: No problem~o!

Q:"After my previous post I got to studying on Plastic Media Blasting. And noticed it doesn't cut rust and you need a second more abrasive media (i.e. garnet, fine sand??, something with more tooth) will soda take care of the rust?"

A: Standard Bicarbonate Soda will not take care of rust. We will be testing several new mixes of Bicarbonate Soda with Aluminum Oxide which is suppose to address the issue; we have no test results yet.

Plastic Media and Bicarbonate Soda have a very similar abrasive action. Plastic Media is not effective on Rust. There are many positives in using Plastic Media including: it is chemically inert; does not pose a Silicosis Hazard; has a consistent particle size and weight; is non-abrasive; is non-toxic and environmentally safe. Plastic Media abrasives are composed of Polyester, Poly Allyl (diglycol carbonate), Acrylic thermoplastic, Urea thermoset, and Melamine thermoset plastic. All Plastic Medias are petroleum-based and cost 3X-4X more than Bicarbonate or Abrasives.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:57 PM
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Sanctifier: Soda Blasting on the Cheap/

Q: I've read that high-pressure hot water or steam is used to clean the shell after paint-stripping in a caustic vat.
A: This is a very specialized, professional operation which is beyond my scope of knowledge. The best thing would be to contact one of the many caustic immersion facilities for more specific information.

Q: I have a commercial Sioux Combination Cleaner... high pressure cold, hot or steam. Can I use steam, followed by dry compressed air (refrigerated air-dryer to be installed) to remove the soda film before prepping for primer?
A: Steaming would act in the same way as the application of a damp cloth. The key again is that you would need to continually wipe the surface you steam --- only this time with DRY lint free polyester microfiber cloth. However, I would not suggest application of steam near a body seam and/or welded joint as it may lead to unseen condensation that fails to be removed (which would then lead you to rust). You may wish to test an area and have an air supply handy to blow out seams and joints with air to assure no moisture remains. Simple steaming, without thorough dry wiping, is not recommended.

Q: Also what are the pros & cons of using soda vs. poly bead media for paint-stripping flat body panels?
A: Plastic Media and Bicarbonate Soda have a very similar abrasive action. Plastic Media is not effective on Rust. The PROS of using Plastic Media include: it is chemically inert; does not pose a Silicosis Hazard; has a consistent particle size and weight; is non-abrasive; is non-toxic and environmentally safe.

Plastic Media abrasives are composed of Polyester, Poly Allyl (diglycol carbonate), Acrylic thermoplastic, Urea thermoset, and Melamine thermoset plastic. All Plastic Medias are petroleum-based and used in industrial applications; they cost 3X-4X more than Bicarbonate or Abrasives.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 01:08 PM
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Eastwood Expert, In the same post you say plastic media is non abrasive then call it plastic media abrasives????
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:27 PM
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speedydeedy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedydeedy
Eastwood Expert, In the same post you say plastic media is non abrasive then call it plastic media abrasives????
A: Excellent Point! And industry information may be dangerous to one's health! It's a common mis-use or mis-understanding of terminology. To paraphrase a saying, "...If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck!~")

"Abrasive" (as a Noun) is defined as "A substance that abrades." "Abrade" (verb.: a�brad�ed, a�brad�ing, a�brades) 1. To wear down or rub away by friction; erode." Bottom line: Bicarbonate Soda, Plastic Media, Garnet, Sand, Glass, Walnut Shells, etc., etc., ALL wear down and rub away(abrade) by friction. The defining difference is whether or not that abrading creates a "tooth" (a scratching or scoring a metal or fiberglass surface.)

Standard Bicarbonate Soda and Plastic Media fall into a category of abrasives that do not create a "Tooth" when abrading. They remove paint, coatings and residue without damaging warping and damaging delicate substrates; they do not create a "tooth" (scratch or score metal) when they "abrade" the metal or fiberglass surface. This is what I meant when I used the term "non-abrasive" in conjunction with Plastic Media and Bicarbonate Soda Media. I should not have used the terminology and I apologize for the confusion I created. Thank you for bring this to my attention!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 03:31 PM
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Thanks for the reply Eastwood Expert. Learnt a bit more now.
With the higher cost of "poly" it looks like I'll be a customer again soon.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastwood Expert
Q: "Doesn't Water + Bare Steel = Rust
I know its not going to pit in the hour it might take you to go from prep to etch or epoxy, but it will form an oxide very quickly. Correct?? "

A: Great question! And you would expect me to say "Correct." But, remember what my father said, "When all else fails... read the instructions - TWICE!"
The key is clean hot water with a damp (not soaking wet) cloth. The cloth is damp enough to remove the residue but not leave the metal wet; the reason the water is hot is to promote immediate evaporation and prevent the reaction of steel and water!

In the time it takes to wipe down the residue (as previously described) then Prep, using a phosphate-based metal prep product, you would not encounter rust.
Actually hot water is the recommended cleaning media for a black powder rifle and if it's hot enough it will evaporate before the barrel rusts. And black powder residue is rich in corrosive salts.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008, 06:18 AM
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I suggest you all do a search on Soda Blasting in the Body-Exterior forum.
The pros and cons of it have been discussed a lot over there.
Plus, many of the regulars in that forum are professional body/paint guys.
I know that BarryK (owner of Southern Polyurethanes (SPI)) does not recommend that any of their products to be used on a vehicle that has been soda blasted. He has posted details on why.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:37 AM
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FOLLOW-UP: Soda Blasting -- on the TV shows

Q I hope the Eastwood people are arranging demonstrations of the thing on the usual TV shows (though maybe not American Garage).

A: I just found out today that the unit should go live the week of 1/14/08 on www.jaylenosgarage.com.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:42 AM
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EASTWOOD EXPERT, You explained it very well and intelligently. Hope you realize that I was just riding you for a little joke.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:49 AM
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speedydeedy

No problem~o!! I have thick skin, some gray hair and know how to smile!
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:55 AM
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Soda Blasting on the Cheap: roger1

C: "...I know that BarryK (owner of Southern Polyurethanes (SPI)) does not recommend that any of their products to be used on a vehicle that has been soda blasted. He has posted details on why."

R: Great point... which goes back to "reading the directions --TWICE!" If a manufacturer recommends there product not be used with another you should always follow their direction.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2008, 05:44 PM
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So I went out and bought the conversion kit for my HF blaster here's my review. Kit is well made and installed easily. If you're buying to ahead and get the one for a HF blaster. Theoretically the HF blaster has a larger threaded hole in the bottom of the tank. Eastwood made up for this by adding an adapter bushing which comes off easily. If you get the HF kit then you can install it on any blaster but as I found my HF blaster did not have the larger threaded hole tank. I also had to remove the threaded stub adapter where the throttle line ran into the manifold. No big deal.

The kit works well and I used it to strip a couple of urethane filler panels. The paint came off with no damage to the urethane and it worked faster and better than stripper.

But if you are planning converting an existing sandblaster and want to move back and forth you may be out of luck. I had previously used some 40 grid black diamond in my blaster. The Eastwood kit uses a restrictor to slow the flow of soda down it's a lot smaller than a grain of 40 grit black diamond medial. And it's difficult to get ALL of the old media out of the tank. When I converted it there was still bits of every medial I've ever used in the thing flowing out.

If you use smaller media you might be OK but if you want to blast media soda you may want to just get TWO blasters, that's what I did.

A good kit though.
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