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Old 03-08-2013, 06:48 AM
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Solid lifters on a hydraulic roller.......

This has been discussed around various forums, but Ive never gone with it. Thinking about trying it though..... using AFR comp. ported 195's on a small block with a CompCams hyd. roller. These heads have the higher rate springs, but AFR says when using high lift hydro rollers, to use a rev-kit (i say as a crutch) to keep the lifters from bouncing or floating at high rpm. They (ARF) use smaller dia. springs to reduce weight in the valve train.
I want to use a solid lifter on the hydro cam.....cuz i like the specs of the cam for street/strip use. But when pullin gears at 6800-7000 rpm, i dont want the lifters to start bouncing off of the camshaft.....any retort to that??

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Old 03-08-2013, 07:07 AM
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A good hydraulic lifter and proper springs and/or rev kit and you'll be fine. If you want a solid roller cam I'd just get a solid roller cam. You can run solid rollers on a hydraulic roller cam but its not optimal.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:59 AM
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If you buy the same grind in solid roller,it will likely have more aggressive lobes.
what cam specs do you like for your application? curious as to what you are building
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:35 AM
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Why not just get a street roller solid roller cam and make more power everywhere?

Using solids on a hyd cam for anything more than one run fun or research testing is really going to get old fast.
A hyd cam does not have a lash ramp. Keeping the valve lash adjusted on a hyd cam will be next to impossible.

A solid roller cam comes in all sizes . and will make more power anyway. And will stay adjusted.
On a solid roller the cam profile the valve lift curve can be a lot more radical within a said duration. (more lift everywhere)
more power, more rpm. as it allows much more spring pressure. And they are not noisy or hard to maintain the lash.

What you are proposing will be a noisy nightmare.

Get a real cam.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 03-08-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:45 AM
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Im putting together a 356 small block, with Eagle 4340 crank and H-beams, lightwt. forged flats, and the usual oil pan w windage control, single plane intake, worked over 750 Holley, AFR competition ported (full CNC) 195's. Looking at the Comp XE294HR, it has decent figures for something streetable but able to hit the track on occasion. Will have 10.5cr or better on the motor, running 3200 stall in a T350, with 3.89 gears out back. All in a stripped down '30 Model A Coupe that weighs very little. Shooting for 500hp or better. I have looked at the solids from Comp also, the XR280R and the XR286R. They are the equivilent to the hydro roller. Want to keep it alive on the street without worrying about valve springs and such....so keeping the lift figures reasonable. My little coupe oughta fly. Gotta mild 350 in it now with 280 advertised, 480 lift cam, decent 2.02 iron heads, 650 carb, and its pretty dang fast now. The new motor should be downright gettin it (sideways, hehe)
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:54 AM
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use the comp solid street roller cams. They are very reliable and very street friendly.
If you want a custom grind beyond what you see in the catalog, all you need to do is call them.

Using a hyd cam is a bod deal in this motor. there is no reason for it.

You will really like one of these Comp solid street rollers. Set the valve lash cold about .004" tighter than the hot lash spec on the cam card. Set it, shut the hood and drive it.

Call Comp or Lunati or Crane. They will get you set up.
The XR286R-10 makes great power. just buy the whole 'K kit" K12-772-8
a lot more power and just as reliable as the little girlie cam you got now. These sold rollers are designed for the street.
You are in for a eye opener first time you rug it.

Hydaulics are for sissy-men.
and mixing up hyd and solid stuff is a really bad unnecessary idea. Keep the cr under 11:1 for pump gas. get a 750 carb.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 03-08-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:55 AM
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The reason he wants to use the cam he has is because he has it. Very simple. No need to shell out another $300 or so for a new cam. I understand completely.

In 1999, Rick Holladay bought a Comp XR294HR and the appropriate lifters. He was still driving the car on the street fairly regularly, so we thought HR might be "better". Well, the "retro-fit" lifters are far too heavy for such a build. They didn't last the whole year. One collapsed. In olden times, we put solid flat tappets on Ram Air IV cams all the time, and it made a big difference in performance. So I called Comp and asked about using solid roller lifters. Gary Henderson was my Comp "rep" at the time. He said: "Set the lash to .008" and let 'er go!" He was right. Picked up 2 tenths, no other changes. One semi-famous Pontiac "guru" worried me to death for a year, asking how they were "holding up". Today, you'd think HE "invented" it... But it works, and works well. The spring rates must increase for the solids to "work". restrictors in the rear are also a very good idea to "slow" the oil flowing to the valve covers.

Be sure to use a GOOD lifter with POSITIVE oiling to the needles (Comp Endurex, Crower HIPPO or Isky "E-Z Roll "Street"). I've heard Scorpion offers a lifter for the Chevy like this. Haven't actually used them. though.

No doubt there will be dissenting voices. It's okay. I supply this information from direct experience, not an "opinion".

Jim
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:00 PM
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111313-06S NA 279 279 247 247 .585 .585 106 102 .022 .022 1,2,5
this is a solid roller street type cam that Howards offers off the shelf
something around this size would launch that little car.
compared to a hydraulic cam it would be similar to 238 duration
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:08 PM
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Sell the hyd roller to someone else that wants a girlie cam and buy the complete K kit solid street roller cam and
complete kit and install it.
It will make way more power and last longer too than this fools dick idea.

DO NOT MIX HYD AND SOLID STUFF. Get the solid roller cam and solid roller lifters and the required valve springs, install and drive it.

It will make more power, last longer, rev higher, stay adjusted way longer and make LESS NOISE than solid on
a hyd cam.

Running a solid lifter on a hyd cam for anything more than a dyno test or two is a fools dick idea.
it is very hard on the cam and lifters as there is no lash ramp.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 03-08-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:45 AM
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Perhaps you missed the part about Comp saying it's fine with "tight" lash, and real-world results of many thousands of street miles AND many 1/4 mile passes without a single failure. $300 is $300 (cost of a new cam of any quality).

There are engine shops advertising the practice for that "hydraulic quiet" with the positive valve action of the solid. It's not experimental OR radical. It's the natural evolution from "retro-fit" hydraulic rollers.

Jim
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:15 AM
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Update....I talked off line to some others, and to Comp themselves. Comp agreed that on that cam, it can be done...so to the nay sayers, what-ever......I dont have the cam yet, its part of a new build for the current motor in the car. The main jist of the story was I liked the timing on that certain cam, but didnt like the idea of the hydralic rollers pumping up and floating at 6500-6800 rpm, and having to use a rev-kit to keep things in line. I am looking now at a solid roller with similar timing for the engine. As far as noise, or adjustments or any of that, i dont give a crap, its part of roddin....i used solid cams for years on lots of different cars, all of them street type cars. I have used big rollers in several race cars, and some small rollers on street cars. I was also concerned with valve spring life with lifts of .580 or more, and having to worry about dropping a spring/valve at highway speed one afternoon and destroying a head or piston.......but thanks to everyone for your opinions......
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:12 PM
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No one said you can't they said you shouldn't. There's a big difference. Btw though more costly today's springs can handle .600" with ease.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:21 PM
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We've bought,sold,and used one dyno pull solid roller Isky springs for yrs.Well up to the current new engines we have been running,but still use the same for the second car we campaign.But as part of normal maintenance we leakdown the race engines weekly and have a after number of laps teardown, where we swap out the springs and dis-guard them.
Got to keep in mind the high pressure springs have a higher tensional material that after awhile is effected by rpm cycles and heat.

We always have spare boxes in inventory for our own racing deal.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMo View Post
Im putting together a 356 small block, with Eagle 4340 crank and H-beams, lightwt. forged flats, and the usual oil pan w windage control, single plane intake, worked over 750 Holley, AFR competition ported (full CNC) 195's. Looking at the Comp XE294HR, it has decent figures for something streetable but able to hit the track on occasion. Will have 10.5cr or better on the motor, running 3200 stall in a T350, with 3.89 gears out back. All in a stripped down '30 Model A Coupe that weighs very little. Shooting for 500hp or better. I have looked at the solids from Comp also, the XR280R and the XR286R. They are the equivilent to the hydro roller. Want to keep it alive on the street without worrying about valve springs and such....so keeping the lift figures reasonable. My little coupe oughta fly. Gotta mild 350 in it now with 280 advertised, 480 lift cam, decent 2.02 iron heads, 650 carb, and its pretty dang fast now. The new motor should be downright gettin it (sideways, hehe)
Comp Cams 15853 Short Travel hydraulic roller lifters are exactly what you need.They are a link bar lifter for 1957-1986 SB Chevrolet engines. They are quiet and trouble free, if the pre-load is set correctly at .005". They cannot pump up and float the valves. Like solid lifters, they have nowhere to pump up to. With the correct amount of spring pressure, they will not loft over radical cam lobes and fill with air. The short travel lifter have only .050" total plunger travel.

Recommended minimum valve spring pressure with short travel lifters is 140 lb. on the seats and 340 lb. open. My present engine has a Comp roller camshaft with .500" valve lift and I am using Comp Cams 15850 Short Travel lifters for a 1987-2004 factory roller tappet engine. I have used used Melling JB-951R short travel (discontinued) hydraulic flat tappet since 1975 with every high performance camshaft. I would not even consider using a standard hydraulic flat tappet or standard roller lifter with a high performance hydraulic camshaft.
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