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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2013, 09:51 AM
put up or shut up
 

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Welcome to my life, Ray. I deal with this on a daily basis as a scientist with all the horrible and INCORRECT information out there on vaccines, big pharma, etc. Different trade, similar problems. Unfortunately people die in my case if they get the bad advise.
Lizer, if you are willing can you give me your thoughts on vaccines or at least the ones you think is mandatory. you can pm me if you chose .

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Old 04-19-2013, 06:02 PM
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Lizer, if you are willing can you give me your thoughts on vaccines or at least the ones you think is mandatory. you can pm me if you chose .
My thoughts on the topic are simple; vaccines are safe and effective. Parents who refuse to get their children vaccinated are neglectful creating a public health risk. Anything you hear about vaccines causing autism is a damn lie based on a fraudulent study some years ago, and dozens of studies before and since have debunked the notion. That's my public service announcement for this community. Just ask Barry, he gets an earful when we talk If you need more detailed info I'll go offline.

Ok, back on topic
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:35 AM
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Every time I hear someone say "proudly" I'm going to lead it I cringe a bit.First off if they cant do bondo how the heck do they expect to do lead ???What they dont realize is even back in leads hay day there were hacks that stuffed a panel full of lead without doing the proper metal work first...
The extra weight is a small problem but if you really want to point him in the right direction without actually telling him he's a hack and pissin him off all you really got to do is say : Shape it in lead? Do you have any idea how much that will cost...Plus theres all that extra weight,,,
.That should do it but it does sound like he has to many dollars and not enough sence...
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:57 AM
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What pisses me off besides the fact that he has the equipment to do a proper repair is that his question to me was, how well does body filler stick to lead...obviously he wants to throw mud on top of what he can't "shape in lead" he's going to try and shape in body filler. That's doubling his chance for failure.

Your right, the guy does have a fair amount of cash, telling him about the cost of filling a panel with lead isn't going to be a deterrent. The reason I'd be concerned about weight is that these old cars don't have the greatest suspensions, go over one good pot hole and that extra weight is going to come into play.

I hope I'm going to be able to post a solution later today. I've been working on a remedy that might work well for everybody involved.

Thanks Mike.

Ray
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:22 AM
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He'll have to learn his own leasons,he's only just started and it must have been a challenge just getting to this point if he wont cut it off and do it over...so let him get even further, spend his time and money and when he comes back crying just tell him I cant ,you wont listen...If you start out wrong it'll be wrong all the way through and it'll end up wrong .Mamma told me many ,many years ago two wrongs dont make it right .
Handling lead is bad for your health breathing it in is also bad so sanding it is is worse everyone around will be breathing it in if its sanded...Please point out just how dangorus working with and around lead is, maybe he'll have more concern about his family Than bosting about how he used lead insted of the superior product called bondo...
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:27 AM
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well, i tell folks once. if they wont listen i leave um to their oun.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:29 AM
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Hey we should add lead or metal filings to bondo and call it something like mostly metal or ALL METAL and get rich off of all these hard headed idiots .what do ya think????
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 09:44 AM
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Hey we should add lead or metal filings to bondo and call it something like mostly metal or ALL METAL and get rich off of all these hard headed idiots .what do ya think????

LOLOL, I remember using that stuff, yep it's "almost" lead.

Edit: I wasn't thinking about "All Metal", I was thinking about what I believe to be the first such product "Met-alloy". I believe that's what it was called, anyone remember that stuff? It was powder as I remember???? Anyone remember it?

Brian
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:14 AM
put up or shut up
 

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I know this will sound stupid but on American Hotrod, I saw Roy use it for small pitting on a windshield channel. No matter how good you are cutting into a window channel is molesting the car a bit and adds some nastiness in itself. So just imagine if the non lead body solder wasn't so corrosive/unstable as a lead and how useful the non lead body solder could be on small stuff, obviously not forming a shape of an entire panel but I could see its uses. Anyone know if the non lead body solder (like the kind they have eastwood) is more forgivable less unstable than the lead style?
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:21 AM
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Thanks Barry, I appreciate the advice and your right, I never thought of it but there is a reason why he called me. As a matter of fact he did call me shortly after the meeting I was telling you about and I told him at that time that advice was free, if he wanted me to build the vehicle for him that then it would cost. So I'm sure he now knows that like you say "I don't have a dog in this fight".

I don't frequent other forums but if I heard this type of advice given here, I would challenge it. I used to work with a fellow that always believed the last person he talked to, so if you wanted something done right, you needed to be sure he didn't have a chance to talk to somebody that was giving advice just for the sake of giving it and get things done while the plan was still fresh in his mind. Again, he was a great guy but had a real challenge reading people.

I know he is going out to buy lead today but he told me that he won't have time to do anything before mid next week. I was going to call him this morning but decided not to. I've spoken my piece to him and hope common sense kicks in before he pours about 75 pound of lead into the back of the vehicle. Just the fact that I know he isn't going to do anything (and he made a point of that several times in our conversation) until next week makes me think that he's in the re think process already. I hope he calls me, that way I can make it his idea and he'll save face and feel better about the decision.

Yes Brian, if somebody comes up to me with a better idea, I love it, even if it is how to mask up an antenna...I found out the first or second day in the trade that masking an antenna was much faster if you don't wrap masking tape around it, it was the guy laughing the hardest that showed me it was faster and easier to run the tape length wise and fold it over...the guy unmasking it (me) was happier to...LOL.

Thanks guys, like I say, time will tell.

Ray
Ray I'll betcha the real reason behind the method he is using is that he doesn't know how to use the english wheel and it was too much trouble to learn. Lots of people have all the equipment but don't know how to use it. Just owning it is a feather in their cap. Good intentions during the purchase but not enough time or patience to learn. Sound dumb but it's true. A gruff response from him might just be a cover up rather than admitting he doesn't know how to use his equipment. There's lots of people out there like that.

BB
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:26 AM
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Ray I'll betcha the real reason behind the method he is using is that he doesn't know how to use the english wheel and it was too much trouble to learn. Lots of people have all the equipment but don't know how to use it. Just owning it is a feather in their cap. Good intentions during the purchase but not enough time or patience to learn. Sound dumb but it's true. A gruff response from him might just be a cover up rather than admitting he doesn't know how to use his equipment. There's lots of people out there like that.

BB
That's the thing BB, I have all that same equipment and the learning curve is mighty steep. I made a few panels from scratch and they were far from "bondo free" so I could see how his not knowing any of this having those tools makes no difference and he is just learning the whole thing to begin with. But this of course is no excuse to not listen and do what Ray is telling him to do.

Brian
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:33 AM
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Ray I'll betcha the real reason behind the method he is using is that he doesn't know how to use the english wheel and it was too much trouble to learn. Lots of people have all the equipment but don't know how to use it. Just owning it is a feather in their cap. Good intentions during the purchase but not enough time or patience to learn. Sound dumb but it's true. A gruff response from him might just be a cover up rather than admitting he doesn't know how to use his equipment. There's lots of people out there like that.

BB
If he wants to get good at that it has to come from his own motivation. Even if you convince him to practice it's not just gonna happen unless his heart is there. If he views it as a hobby and not just something he's gonna try when he needs a customer's part done I'd say he might put in the work. As a bodytech, after watching lots of videos on it and reading up on it, I have a feeling I myself have to look at it as a hobby, like tig welding. You're not just gonna get good at that either, and your body experience will help you out so far. In other words, even body techs can't view that machinery as just more "tools" in the shop. you actually have to take your butt back to school and start looking at metal in a different way. Some people have gone far too long to ever be so humbled by such machinery.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:52 AM
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That's the thing BB, I have all that same equipment and the learning curve is mighty steep. I made a few panels from scratch and they were far from "bondo free" so I could see how his not knowing any of this having those tools makes no difference and he is just learning the whole thing to begin with. But this of course is no excuse to not listen and do what Ray is telling him to do.

Brian
That's true Brian but then he would have to publicly admit he doesn't know how. That's hard for some people.

BB
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:59 AM
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that's the #1 problem amongst techs. Everyone wants to be a master and know everything. That's great to be the best you can be to be the best you can be entails that you're always open to refine your skills and you're hardly ever satisfied. You point out what's wrong as opposed to what's right. If you view it as a never ending quest and keep that title reserved to the REAL experts than you don't have so many "experts" ranging from sucking to actually being good. When you act like you know everything you close off that great window of opportunity, or just sneak around like a ninja to learn. I've seen guys come and go who were toting themselves as experts who were everything from sucky to great and everything in between.

In my eyes, don't go calling yourself a metal master if you're not making quarters from scratch. Til then be a student and respect the metal gods.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:06 AM
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That's true Brian but then he would have to publicly admit he doesn't know how. That's hard for some people.

BB
It's like anything, hand me Eric Claptons Fender Strait and I can't play it like Clapton.

I thought I was going to do some "paintless Dent repair" being I had all the equipment at work, I found out real fast that it is a whole different thing than body work or even metal finishing. I can do some decent metal finishing, repairing dents with no filler at all to perfection. So I figured I certainly could do this PDR, the guys who come and do it aren't "real bodymen" after all, LOLOL, I tried and tried to do it for quite some time, I sort of got close once in a while on some simple ones, maybe even pulled it off a time or two but I was MILES and MILES from really doing it. Like the PDR guy who comes by told me "Do thirty a day for a month or two and you will start to get the hang of it". LOL I gave up and left it to him.

Brian
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