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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:53 PM
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I want to thank each and everyone of you and your posts have helped me come to a conclusion. This car will get repaired properly. The customer may not know it yet but, it will happen. I have a passion for older vehicles that are in better than respectable conditions...if the customer did the repair his way, he would have diminished the cash value of the vehicle, it would have been done wrong and it would haunt me. I thought long and hard and came up with a plan that might save the car, save my customer, educate everyone involved and financially, it would be win win...for everybody. I've been told that I have in the past had an ability to take an adverse situation and turn it into a profitable Endeavour.


When thinking about the situation, suggestions from all of you people have lead me to a conclusion. The person in question does not know who to use the equipment that he has purchase and is against redoing it properly to save face. I also know that the rest of the pre-war car club at the meeting we had was interested in learning more about the equipment we discussed and would like to learn hands on. Now, to top it off, the club is always looking for seminars to high light different areas of repair, be it mechanical, paint and body etc. I also have a good working relationship with the President of the club and they are also always looking for key note speakers that can enlighten the group.

My first order of business was to speak to the President, get him on side to provide a seminar on how to shape and build panels for doing a proper restoration. I suggested to the President that we we had a situation that could end up in an expensive catastrophe and it would just be done wrong and I didn't want to offend the owner of this rare yet workable car.

The president asked me what I had in mind. I told him that seeing that this individual had some good equipment and a shop that would hold about 20 prospective members that would be willing to learn, why not use this shop to show people how to do a proper repair. He asked how long this tutorial would take, I told him with a little pre planning, 8 hours would be sufficient. The president said let me send and email to the members and see what king of interest we had...this was Friday afternoon. The email to the members read 20 spots available, 2 nights, Tuesday the 30th of April and May 1st....it took about 30 hours, we've had 27 confirmations so far. Today I contacted the owner of the vehicle and told him that I would like to highlight his shop, his equipment and his vehicle, I wanted to spend about 1/2 hour showcasing all of the great work he had done so far and then concentrate on the rear panel. He was ecstatic...when I mentioned that there would be a profit in the two evenings for him of a bout $300...the hand shake couldn't have come faster.

So what my plan is, is to go to his shop, take pictures of the repair area, take measurements, go back to my shop and pre build the repair panel. When everyone arrive on Tuesday, brake them up into groups of three, spend a bout 1/2 hour on theory, give each attendee a 12 X 12 sheet of metal each with a corner of the replacement panel, give them a go at the English wheel, supervise it so that hey have a better understanding of the piece of equipment. When everyone is comfortable, I will take a 38 inch X 38 inch piece of sheet metal and start building the repair panel while every one is standing around and watching, all the time having one already built. Get it close and then pull out the one I know will fit. Now have the owner of the vehicle cut out the straight piece of metal that he had welded in, and ask him to trim the new panel to fit. While he is doing this, I'll do a Q & A session and let the owner weld in the new panel and grind the weld s flush. The last order of business for Tuesday will be for the class to see how the new panel will fit compared to the old panel.

On Wednesday, tinning and leading will be the order of business, each group will weld the pieces that they build the previous day day to an adjacent panel from another group, grind the welds, begin tinning and leading...I only have 2 lead files and paddles so I may need to pick up several more. All this time, the owner of the car will be working directly with me on leading the repair panel on the car. I'll make a point of doing the pick and file work to make sure that we have an acceptable repair

I now will have 9 groups of three people, kinda educated in the proper way to lead in a repair panel, the repair on the owners car will be something that he can be proud of, he learned something, saved face...and at $40 a apiece for an 8 hour tutorial, the owner of the vehicle get's his car fixed and makes $300...I spent a bit of money on tools, that I keep, that I feel should cost me about $350...leaves me profit of about $400 after I pay for the chair rental for the guys to sit.

So far I have the go ahead from all departments, the class is full, the guy gets his vehicle fixed, everybody learns and financially it's profitable.

If you guys figure this is going to work, let me know, any pitfalls, let me know...I just want this to work out for everybody.

I think this is a way I can dodge a bullet for my personal self and for the owner of the vehicle.

Ray

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:34 PM
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I wish I could go to that seminar! Sounds like you handled it brilliantly Ray.

Brian
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I want to thank each and everyone of you and your posts have helped me come to a conclusion. This car will get repaired properly. The customer may not know it yet but, it will happen. I have a passion for older vehicles that are in better than respectable conditions...if the customer did the repair his way, he would have diminished the cash value of the vehicle, it would have been done wrong and it would haunt me. I thought long and hard and came up with a plan that might save the car, save my customer, educate everyone involved and financially, it would be win win...for everybody. I've been told that I have in the past had an ability to take an adverse situation and turn it into a profitable Endeavour.


When thinking about the situation, suggestions from all of you people have lead me to a conclusion. The person in question does not know who to use the equipment that he has purchase and is against redoing it properly to save face. I also know that the rest of the pre-war car club at the meeting we had was interested in learning more about the equipment we discussed and would like to learn hands on. Now, to top it off, the club is always looking for seminars to high light different areas of repair, be it mechanical, paint and body etc. I also have a good working relationship with the President of the club and they are also always looking for key note speakers that can enlighten the group.

My first order of business was to speak to the President, get him on side to provide a seminar on how to shape and build panels for doing a proper restoration. I suggested to the President that we we had a situation that could end up in an expensive catastrophe and it would just be done wrong and I didn't want to offend the owner of this rare yet workable car.

The president asked me what I had in mind. I told him that seeing that this individual had some good equipment and a shop that would hold about 20 prospective members that would be willing to learn, why not use this shop to show people how to do a proper repair. He asked how long this tutorial would take, I told him with a little pre planning, 8 hours would be sufficient. The president said let me send and email to the members and see what king of interest we had...this was Friday afternoon. The email to the members read 20 spots available, 2 nights, Tuesday the 30th of April and May 1st....it took about 30 hours, we've had 27 confirmations so far. Today I contacted the owner of the vehicle and told him that I would like to highlight his shop, his equipment and his vehicle, I wanted to spend about 1/2 hour showcasing all of the great work he had done so far and then concentrate on the rear panel. He was ecstatic...when I mentioned that there would be a profit in the two evenings for him of a bout $300...the hand shake couldn't have come faster.

So what my plan is, is to go to his shop, take pictures of the repair area, take measurements, go back to my shop and pre build the repair panel. When everyone arrive on Tuesday, brake them up into groups of three, spend a bout 1/2 hour on theory, give each attendee a 12 X 12 sheet of metal each with a corner of the replacement panel, give them a go at the English wheel, supervise it so that hey have a better understanding of the piece of equipment. When everyone is comfortable, I will take a 38 inch X 38 inch piece of sheet metal and start building the repair panel while every one is standing around and watching, all the time having one already built. Get it close and then pull out the one I know will fit. Now have the owner of the vehicle cut out the straight piece of metal that he had welded in, and ask him to trim the new panel to fit. While he is doing this, I'll do a Q & A session and let the owner weld in the new panel and grind the weld s flush. The last order of business for Tuesday will be for the class to see how the new panel will fit compared to the old panel.

On Wednesday, tinning and leading will be the order of business, each group will weld the pieces that they build the previous day day to an adjacent panel from another group, grind the welds, begin tinning and leading...I only have 2 lead files and paddles so I may need to pick up several more. All this time, the owner of the car will be working directly with me on leading the repair panel on the car. I'll make a point of doing the pick and file work to make sure that we have an acceptable repair

I now will have 9 groups of three people, kinda educated in the proper way to lead in a repair panel, the repair on the owners car will be something that he can be proud of, he learned something, saved face...and at $40 a apiece for an 8 hour tutorial, the owner of the vehicle get's his car fixed and makes $300...I spent a bit of money on tools, that I keep, that I feel should cost me about $350...leaves me profit of about $400 after I pay for the chair rental for the guys to sit.

So far I have the go ahead from all departments, the class is full, the guy gets his vehicle fixed, everybody learns and financially it's profitable.

If you guys figure this is going to work, let me know, any pitfalls, let me know...I just want this to work out for everybody.

I think this is a way I can dodge a bullet for my personal self and for the owner of the vehicle.

Ray
Great idea...
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:59 PM
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Thanks Brian, I thought long and hard...there had to be a solution..this way the owner of the car gets his shop, his car, his new found ability showcased because he has the tools...and everybody learns.

It took me a few hours of thinking and planing, but when I got the President on side....it snowballed...Just wonder how many more people are going to want to show...always stragglers and guys that show up unannounced.

The president is planing on taping the whole 8 hours...so who knows.

Thanks again
Ray
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:04 AM
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Great idea...
Thanks Randy and thanks for the thumbs up, coming from you and the thumbs up from Brian as well, makes me feel like this could work...and I think I saved a real cool Buick.

Ray
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:17 AM
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Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

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Thanks Randy and thanks for the thumbs up, coming from you and the thumbs up from Brian as well, makes me feel like this could work...and I think I saved a real cool Buick.

Ray
Mr.Ray.... A great friend once told me...

''A positive attitude always has a positive outcome''.

Think positive !!!! And say.... IT WILL WORK !!!!!

Have Faith..
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:30 AM
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Mr.Ray.... A great friend once told me...

''A positive attitude always has a positive outcome''.

Think positive !!!! And say.... IT WILL WORK !!!!!

Have Faith..
A very wise man once told me that..
Any good man can take a good situation and yield positive results.
A wise man can take a bad situation and yield prosperous results.

My Dad was a pretty smart guy.
Thanks again Randy

Ray
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:40 AM
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A very wise man once told me that..
Any good man can take a good situation and yield positive results.
A wise man can take a bad situation and yield prosperous results.

My Dad was a pretty smart guy.
Thanks again Randy

Ray

Good night Mr.Ray..
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:08 AM
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I know this will sound stupid but on American Hotrod, I saw Roy use it for small pitting on a windshield channel. No matter how good you are cutting into a window channel is molesting the car a bit and adds some nastiness in itself. So just imagine if the non lead body solder wasn't so corrosive/unstable as a lead and how useful the non lead body solder could be on small stuff, obviously not forming a shape of an entire panel but I could see its uses. Anyone know if the non lead body solder (like the kind they have eastwood) is more forgivable less unstable than the lead style?
I saw a demo on the lead freesolder and an old lead guy said right off it wont work but as he was trying it he changed his mind and said it seams just as good.I havent used it but I believe its good stuff..
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:19 AM
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Great idea Ray, be sure to video it and post so we can learn too...
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:05 AM
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Great idea Ray, be sure to video it and post so we can learn too...
Thanks Mike, I know the President said he was going to video the whole thing...I'm sure that it would need to be edited...LOL...Listening and looking at me for 8 hours would be nasty. In a way, I feel sorry for the guys that are going to be there.

Ray
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I want to thank each and everyone of you and your posts have helped me come to a conclusion. This car will get repaired properly. The customer may not know it yet but, it will happen. I have a passion for older vehicles that are in better than respectable conditions...if the customer did the repair his way, he would have diminished the cash value of the vehicle, it would have been done wrong and it would haunt me. I thought long and hard and came up with a plan that might save the car, save my customer, educate everyone involved and financially, it would be win win...for everybody. I've been told that I have in the past had an ability to take an adverse situation and turn it into a profitable Endeavour.


When thinking about the situation, suggestions from all of you people have lead me to a conclusion. The person in question does not know who to use the equipment that he has purchase and is against redoing it properly to save face. I also know that the rest of the pre-war car club at the meeting we had was interested in learning more about the equipment we discussed and would like to learn hands on. Now, to top it off, the club is always looking for seminars to high light different areas of repair, be it mechanical, paint and body etc. I also have a good working relationship with the President of the club and they are also always looking for key note speakers that can enlighten the group.

My first order of business was to speak to the President, get him on side to provide a seminar on how to shape and build panels for doing a proper restoration. I suggested to the President that we we had a situation that could end up in an expensive catastrophe and it would just be done wrong and I didn't want to offend the owner of this rare yet workable car.

The president asked me what I had in mind. I told him that seeing that this individual had some good equipment and a shop that would hold about 20 prospective members that would be willing to learn, why not use this shop to show people how to do a proper repair. He asked how long this tutorial would take, I told him with a little pre planning, 8 hours would be sufficient. The president said let me send and email to the members and see what king of interest we had...this was Friday afternoon. The email to the members read 20 spots available, 2 nights, Tuesday the 30th of April and May 1st....it took about 30 hours, we've had 27 confirmations so far. Today I contacted the owner of the vehicle and told him that I would like to highlight his shop, his equipment and his vehicle, I wanted to spend about 1/2 hour showcasing all of the great work he had done so far and then concentrate on the rear panel. He was ecstatic...when I mentioned that there would be a profit in the two evenings for him of a bout $300...the hand shake couldn't have come faster.

So what my plan is, is to go to his shop, take pictures of the repair area, take measurements, go back to my shop and pre build the repair panel. When everyone arrive on Tuesday, brake them up into groups of three, spend a bout 1/2 hour on theory, give each attendee a 12 X 12 sheet of metal each with a corner of the replacement panel, give them a go at the English wheel, supervise it so that hey have a better understanding of the piece of equipment. When everyone is comfortable, I will take a 38 inch X 38 inch piece of sheet metal and start building the repair panel while every one is standing around and watching, all the time having one already built. Get it close and then pull out the one I know will fit. Now have the owner of the vehicle cut out the straight piece of metal that he had welded in, and ask him to trim the new panel to fit. While he is doing this, I'll do a Q & A session and let the owner weld in the new panel and grind the weld s flush. The last order of business for Tuesday will be for the class to see how the new panel will fit compared to the old panel.

On Wednesday, tinning and leading will be the order of business, each group will weld the pieces that they build the previous day day to an adjacent panel from another group, grind the welds, begin tinning and leading...I only have 2 lead files and paddles so I may need to pick up several more. All this time, the owner of the car will be working directly with me on leading the repair panel on the car. I'll make a point of doing the pick and file work to make sure that we have an acceptable repair

I now will have 9 groups of three people, kinda educated in the proper way to lead in a repair panel, the repair on the owners car will be something that he can be proud of, he learned something, saved face...and at $40 a apiece for an 8 hour tutorial, the owner of the vehicle get's his car fixed and makes $300...I spent a bit of money on tools, that I keep, that I feel should cost me about $350...leaves me profit of about $400 after I pay for the chair rental for the guys to sit.

So far I have the go ahead from all departments, the class is full, the guy gets his vehicle fixed, everybody learns and financially it's profitable.

If you guys figure this is going to work, let me know, any pitfalls, let me know...I just want this to work out for everybody.

I think this is a way I can dodge a bullet for my personal self and for the owner of the vehicle.

Ray
I think you have come up with a very workable solution. What you might also do after your friend has his go at the english wheel and assuming he has the normal results, speak to him on the side complementing on his techniques and say, "You've got a knack for this, let me stop by tomorrow and show you some tricks."
That way he'll get a good education on that piece of equipment. One on one is always more beneficial and he'll never know what hit him!
Let us know how it turns out.
Oh yeah, when your done with him how about coming over to my house and teach me?

BB
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:07 AM
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Great idea Ray, be sure to video it and post so we can learn too...
that's a great idea cause you never know how good someone's work is til you see it. let me tell you a story....i used to visit this website[won't mention name] and at the time i wasn't very good at the work but my time on his website was short cause him and the other members would gang up on me and as i look back at it i c an see why and some of it was deserved, some not. thing was, i saw the web owners work and it was horrible. so i got to thinking, 'man, if you're gonna belittle people on the internet to make yourself look better than you should probably have the work to go along with it.' if not, it's not real to me. it's fake cause in reality this clown wouldn't last two weeks in my shop. so one time this guy was messing with me so i posted up a pic of his welding and he started back tracking and lying and saying it wasn't his welding, even edited his own posts and stuff he wrote. look like a drunk baby welded it up. never seen such horrible welds in my life and yet this guy talked a big talk on line and looked down on everybody. he's not the only guy on the internet like this. so with that said, video is at least a step in the right direction in terms of knowing if a guy can do what he says.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:15 AM
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Ray, I'm impressed, you are a doer, not a read and then write about type guy,
any of us can give our two cents worth but you took the bull by the horns and just plain whipped its arse!

Great job!!!
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:16 AM
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that's a great idea cause you never know how good someone's work is til you see it. let me tell you a story....i used to visit this website[won't mention name] and at the time i wasn't very good at the work but my time on his website was short cause him and the other members would gang up on me and as i look back at it i c an see why and some of it was deserved, some not. thing was, i saw the web owners work and it was horrible. so i got to thinking, 'man, if you're gonna belittle people on the internet to make yourself look better than you should probably have the work to go along with it.' if not, it's not real to me. it's fake cause in reality this clown wouldn't last two weeks in my shop. so one time this guy was messing with me so i posted up a pic of his welding and he started back tracking and lying and saying it wasn't his welding, even edited his own posts and stuff he wrote. look like a drunk baby welded it up. never seen such horrible welds in my life and yet this guy talked a big talk on line and looked down on everybody. he's not the only guy on the internet like this. so with that said, video is at least a step in the right direction in terms of knowing if a guy can do what he says.
Man is that the truth... I seen some people just like that....On the forum's..
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