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Old 09-24-2005, 07:55 AM
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Somebody give some simple advice

I have read and read post from this site, instructions from other sites and all sorts of articles in magazines on body work until my eyes hurt.

Will someone just tell me what to do?

I have a truck which has a surprisely good body, the only rust is in the floor pans and I am taking care of that right now. The problem I am having is what do with the rest of the body. This is what I want to do.

1. Change the color from black to a red wine color, the door jambs and interior I will shoot and the exterior I will probably give to a body shop

2. The chrome on the body is going away so there is going to be some grinding and welding going on.

So what kind of body prep do I do on the paint that is there on the outside and what kind of primer would be best?

Also what is the opinion on a basecoat/clearcoat or a urethane 2K, the body shop supply seems to be pushing the 2K?

Someone just point me in a direction and I can figure out the rest.

Greg
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Old 09-24-2005, 09:22 AM
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If the existing paint is good, block sand it very thoroughly and spray it with a good coat of epoxy primer. Pick a color that is close to what you want for the final color (white for under white, red, yellow, etc., or dark gray for under black, midnight blue, etc.) The primer will act as a sealer and base for the final paint. I am partial to base/clear w/ catalyzed urethane. Can't beat the depth that a couple coats of clear gives to a paint job.
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Old 09-24-2005, 09:33 AM
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Sanding ?????

Can I use a DA with a finer sandpaper 120 grit or so? and then look at block sanding, less work with a DA

Also I will welding up some holes and grinding down some molding studs. so this will be bare metal. Does this make a difference in those areas?

And finally the interior, same primer? and can this primer be sanded fairly easy?

Thanks
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Old 09-24-2005, 09:36 AM
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I dont fully understand where you are ending and the bodyshop is starting??


I would not paint the jambs yourself. Interior is OK, but your bodyshop might run into lifting issues going from body to jamb. Since the truck is apart, it should not cost much more to do the jambs.

I would totally strip the truck to bare metal. Weld the chrome holes up you plan to fill and then epoxy primer the entire truck. You can do your body work on top of the epoxy. Use the "fill" primer of your choice and then paint.

Base Clear or single stage is up to you. Since you are not worried about an original look, I think Base Clear is the best choice for the wine color you are looking for. you might be considering a candy??

Just a note.. Epoxy is not a sanding/filling primer. So it just goes on the base and you need a high fill primer to block. Your DA will NOT replace blocking. Its only used to strip down to bare metal and body work.

Rich
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Old 09-24-2005, 09:52 AM
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a da sander was originally designed to feather edge paint and if your not good with it you can do more harm than good. i would do as mccabe suggested. get rid of the paint, weld it up and epoxy it. i built a blasting building just to get rid of old paint. every problem i've ever had was something underneath coming back to haunt me.
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Old 09-24-2005, 09:59 AM
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paint the entire thing your self its not that hard......

2k is the way to go, any filler you use bondo ect has alos have to be 2k. 2k in a nut shell is any product that require a hardener, so do not use the red ready to use spotting putty that would be 1k.

use a good epeoxy primer for the inside and outside once you grind and sand and wels anything you need to fix. put your filler over the epoxy primer sand and get thet smooth then use 2k sandable primer over your body work and filers. then you will wet sand with a guide coat to get the body perfectly smooth, then you will shoot your base coat let cure and then your clears coats. belive me you can do the entire job its not that hard. if you have read everything you can find and get the tech sheets on you paint and be specfic to mix the right product together you got it.

as for the exterior do your grinding welding ect then go over the entire body with 220 grit to nock off any loose spots feather any chips clean it real; good and your ready to spray epoxy. yes you can use your d/a. paint the jambs and body all at the same time this way there is no uneven spots or blending to do. it will be way easy with the truck in peices like you have it.

jeff
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Old 09-24-2005, 10:38 AM
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Jeff, I am not sure, but I think when he said Base Clear or Urethane 2K he really was talking about B/C or Urethane Single stage color??

Blacklotus what did you mean.

Its basically this process.

1) Epoxy bare metal
2) Do bondo work
3) Use "2K" hi build fill primer
4) Seal (optional)
4) Paint with Base/Clear or Single stage Urethane.


Rich
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Old 09-24-2005, 11:20 AM
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I agree with everything but stripping to bare metal. If the factory paint is still good, there is no better base for a repaint. And it saves a BUNCH of extra unnecessary work. Do the welding patches on bare metal, epoxy those spots and 2K primer, bondo and sand to perfection, then block sand (rough up, don't strip) the whole thing and overcoat w/ epoxy primer/sealer and you are ready for color coats.
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Old 09-24-2005, 02:17 PM
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Yea but how do you know if its factory paint or if its good. The amount of work is small compared to the cost or materials.

I would be safe.

Rich
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Old 09-24-2005, 03:11 PM
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sand with 240 or 320 on da. Preferably 320. be sure to hold da. flat and don't stand on end for any reason.With the plam of your hand feel all feather edges and make sure theres no rough or diped edges. Some times a silk cloth between hand and work helps begainers feel their work better.Prime only bare metal spots with a2k primer do not primer the whole cab thats what sealer is for.when primer is dry [give it 8 hrs if you have the time ] hand sand with 400 sand paper again be sure not to use ends of fingers and hold plam of hand as flat as possible. Clean with a wax and grease remover or a final wash of some kind and your ready for paint.
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Old 09-24-2005, 03:58 PM
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Rich, Shine, how about this. Buy a SprayBake booth (they're only about $50,000) build a 40x60ft shop with shelves on all the walls to put all the parts from the truck. TOTALLY disassemble the truck cataloging all the parts. Have all the sheet metal chemically dipped to strip all paint, seam sealers, etc. Replace any rusted parts with NOS. Learn to metal finish and totally metal finish all sheet metal. Epoxy prime it all. Powder coat the frame and all suspension componants.........I think you get my point.

It is hard to say at this point what Gregs expectations are, but I think striping the truck to bare metal would be TOTALLY overwhelming for him.

We all know the "best" way, heck your advice isn't even the "best" it would be closer to the ridiculas example I gave, and there are plenty who would go even further. I think what Greg needs the "bestest" advice. The "bestest" advice is a mixture of Gregs skills, tools, time, and expectations of the final product.

I hope you take my comments in good light, we are all just standing around in a garage bsing.

Greg, you have gotten such a wide variety of advice you are probably more confused than before.

Here is the way I see it........

Willy's is right on the money, a HUGE majority of cars that get repainted are simply sanded and painted. There is a primer spot here and there, the whole thing is sanded, it is sealed (non sanding) and painted. We are talking one in many, many tens of thousands is stripped to bare metal.

Fact: stripping that truck is going to add 40-80 hours to the job, IF you are a pro. As a home hobbiest first time plan on 100-150. Your typical weekend you could put what, 20 hours? We are talking a couple of months weekends. Are you ready to make that commitment? Because when you get all that paint off, you ARE commited, believe me.

Using epoxy under the plastic filler is best, however 90% or more of cars repaired and painted have the plastic filler on bare metal. So, at the very least, it is "ok" to do that.

So, weld the holes, grind the studs off and remove the surrounding paint to apply filler over the bare metal. Feather out the paint, and spray a urethane primer to block and make even with the surrounding paint.

You can prep and paint the door jambs, and under the hood and then remove the bed and let a shop paint the whole outside.

If after you do all the body work and jambing, you may feel like you could do the outside, I am all for that. IF, you feel like it at the time. You may be totally burnt out and don't want to go any further, that is cool too.

Just start doing the bodywork and see where it leads you.

BC/CC vs SS? If it is metallic, bc/cc hands down. If it is a solid color, it is a toss up. I still lean bc/cc, it is so much easier to repair.

Brian
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Old 09-24-2005, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
I think you get my point.
Yea, Brian I get your point. I just dont agree with it. Not in the slightest. What we are talking about has NOTHING to do with a 40x60 shop or a 50k paint booth. He already said its going to the body shop. We dont need a paint booth

The man is obviously not doing a scuff and paint. He is doing it right. If you notice, the cab is off the frame and he is welding in new floors, painting interior. He is also welding in trim and emblem holes all over the truck. Once again, its obvious this is NOT a scuff and paint.

So he goes ahead and finishes it your method, fills the holes touches up where needed puts the cab on the frame, spends $2000 on paint materials ALONE and six months later he has a rust bubbles coming through because the owner skimmed over a bunch of pin holes or a body shop loaded up a bunch of lacquer primer and is an accident waiting to happen. But there is no way to know that because we did not take it to metal.

So I agree that you can over do things no knowing what the owners expectations are. But its pretty obvious to me he is not doing a quicky job. If it was, the cab would not be off the frame.

And 40-60 hours may be a lot of additional time on a scuff and paint, but its NOTHING on a frame off. Drop in the bucket.

Rich
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Old 09-24-2005, 05:17 PM
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LOL, I only read the text, I never looked at his photo. You may be right, lets see what he has in mind.


Brian
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Old 09-24-2005, 05:56 PM
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the truck looks way too good to be fac paint. best to gauge it and see whats on it. i forget that everybody does'nt have a media blast booth . there are so many ways to attack one it's hard to give advise. old paint and feather edged body work usually give the novice fits , lifting , swelling and such. money spent for blasting is well spent. depends on where he's going.
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Old 09-24-2005, 05:59 PM
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Rich, I see that there are differing opinions on what extent to go to on this project. One thing that needs to be considered is the experience of the worker. Another thing to consider is the time available for the work. To strip the thing to bare metal will leave it open to corrosion problems. If the vehicle has solid paint on it right now, I would not recommend that someone strip that off. It is sealed up and adhesion is not a problem. If the bidy has no apparent repairs that have been done to it in the past, I believe that it is better to leave the original paint where possible. To strip the whole body to bare metal would mean doing a panel at a time and immediatly covering each panel with primer, or he will be increasing the chance of corrosion. It will also increase the chances of adhesion problems due to contaminants on the bare metal.

As an added note. The original finish is great for using when blocking the panels to make sure that they are straight.

Just my opinion.
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