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  #46  
Old 08-25-2007, 11:54 AM
scottoldboy scottoldboy is offline
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My sincerest apologies to F3RR3T. Very good math skills. But, did you figure in the mandated work breaks. And are they cigarette smokers? Most good 'ol boys are. If they are, they only really work 6 hrs a day. 1000/(6*5)=33-1/3 engines per hour. Now, that's totally unrealistic! For the answer as to how such a thing could possibly be go to Wikipedia and look up sarcasm and exaggeration. Language only matters when you have something say.
BTW does it bother you to have the twenty - something waitress address both you and your wife as "You guys". My wife is certainly not a guy!
Hereafter, discussion on my part is going to be limited to engines.
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  #47  
Old 08-25-2007, 12:18 PM
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Hey scottoldboy, I've read innumerable posts on here where stuff was misspelled or worded incorrectly. There's alot of good minds on here. It's not a spelling bee or a typing class. It's a hot rod forum.

Lighten up big daddy, we're all here to LEARN from and share with each other.

AB was asking for advice and opinions from others, which is what he got.

You, on the other hand, strike me as someone who has a chip on his shoulder, which may indicate there is wood up above. And from the length and tone of your post, are a bit top heavy yourself, just in a different way.

I found the thread interesting and based on previous info shared by RICKWI and FBIRD-88 in other posts, always hold what they say in regard whether I may think it's correct or not.

Good luck with your Jeep
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  #48  
Old 08-25-2007, 12:21 PM
sc2dave sc2dave is offline
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  #49  
Old 08-25-2007, 06:07 PM
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Here's results from some one with actual experience with the idea.

"Longbedlightning" recently completed the Hot Rod Power Tour in his Ford
pickup. Consistent low 13 second time slips at the local track (he won the NPR
Friday night race last night) and averaging 20 MPG on the highway during the
tour is impressive considering the weight and frontal area!

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  #50  
Old 08-25-2007, 08:10 PM
Chevrolet4x4s Chevrolet4x4s is offline
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Whats it do add more of a swirl and make it a better blended mixture that burns more effectively? Can you feel the difference while driving it? Roughly how much does it help fuel efficency?..any dyno numbers?

Shane
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  #51  
Old 08-26-2007, 12:16 AM
Triaged Triaged is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
Here's results from some one with actual experience with the idea.

"Longbedlightning" recently completed the Hot Rod Power Tour in his Ford
pickup. Consistent low 13 second time slips at the local track (he won the NPR
Friday night race last night) and averaging 20 MPG on the highway during the
tour is impressive considering the weight and frontal area!
And exactly what were his numbers before the grooves?
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  #52  
Old 08-26-2007, 07:05 AM
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RippinRon RippinRon is offline
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I thought this pic looked interesting, although I'm not sure what kind of head it is? You can see where the groove seemed create a wave like combustion pattern. But they are just pictures.
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Last edited by RippinRon : 08-26-2007 at 08:26 AM.
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  #53  
Old 08-26-2007, 08:24 AM
baddbob baddbob is offline
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The only thing I haven't seen yet on this groove idea is a back to back dyno test with no other changes made. Usually when a person is doing headwork mods to this degree the bowls will get touched up, seats redone, combustion chamber polished, etc... all at the same time. So we never get to see what these grooves do without the combined effects of all the other modifications. I sure would like to see testing results on just the grooves. Same engine, same head gaskets, same tune, and same heads with only the addition of the grooves...
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  #54  
Old 08-26-2007, 09:55 AM
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Baddbob, the majority of the examples and pictures I post are not tests. I pay
my racing expenses by porting cylinder heads. I cut grooves in the heads
when the customer wants them, not as a test but rather a performance enhancement.

I do most of my testing at No Problem Race way in these two Camaros. I don't
have access to a flow bench or a dyno so I do it the old fashion way. Run the
car, record time slips and fuel consumption, modify and repeat.

Chevrolet4x4s, results depend on engine performance before the modification.
With a race car you can hear the difference at idle and RPM, see the
difference on the time slip and in reductions in fuel consumption.




Last edited by automotive breath : 08-26-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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  #55  
Old 08-26-2007, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RippinRon
I thought this pic looked interesting, although I'm not sure what kind of head
it is? You can see where the groove seemed create a wave like combustion
pattern. But they are just pictures.


Ron, thats a picture of a two stroke engine that has serious problems. It will
take more than grooves to resolve the issues.
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  #56  
Old 08-26-2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottoldboy
... I do wonder about varying the mixture and timing on the OBDI engine to
get maximum benefit from the head...-Scott


Scott, As for the mixture, with grooves you can lean it out; 15:1 or leaner at steady
state cruse. Ignition advance will depend on many variables, don't make
assumptions, tune for performance and economy.
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  #57  
Old 08-26-2007, 11:22 AM
Rick WI Rick WI is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
The only thing I haven't seen yet on this groove idea is a back to back dyno test with no other changes made. Usually when a person is doing headwork mods to this degree the bowls will get touched up, seats redone, combustion chamber polished, etc... all at the same time. So we never get to see what these grooves do without the combined effects of all the other modifications. I sure would like to see testing results on just the grooves. Same engine, same head gaskets, same tune, and same heads with only the addition of the grooves...


As I have mentioned many times in the past. Still no "real" data.
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  #58  
Old 08-26-2007, 11:58 AM
sc2dave sc2dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
As I have mentioned many times in the past. Still no "real" data.
As i mentioned before,afraid to try and find out for yourself?
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  #59  
Old 08-26-2007, 02:34 PM
Rick WI Rick WI is offline
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Good luck with your jeep
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  #60  
Old 08-26-2007, 03:27 PM
scottoldboy scottoldboy is offline
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Thank you to the well wishers on the jeep project. I have yet to take possession due to a title issue, however I do have the head, intake and exhaust as collateral on my down payment. The head has almost as large a squish area behind the plug as opposite the plug. Any suggestions as to a groove pattern? It seems if turbulence is the goal, two grooves behind the plug pointing towards the center of the valves and two grooves opposite the plug pointed towards the plug would induce a nice swirl within the combustion chamber. Also, what would you recommend milling off the head to raise the compression. Since the goal of this project is to increase MPG and decrease operating expense, I certainly don't want to create a need for higher octane gasoline. Not only is the head off, but the cylinders are rusted. it will be a while before I have a report back on the results of the grooved head.
On a different topic, possibly already much discussed, is the obvious difference in the carbon buildup on the head between the cylinders where the gap in the plug is open to the combustion chamber and the ones where the gap is towards the squish area behind the plug. Oddly, there are three of each and the orientation is nearly perfect either way. There is noticeably less carbon in the cylinders where the gap faces the combustion chamber. I've heard of orienting the plugs. If this is the only variable, seeing is believing.
Groovey! - Scott
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